Talk:Ian Stuart Donaldson/Archive 1

Anti-White activist?
I've never heard this phrase, but I'm guessing it's some Nazi subculture's jargon for 'anti-racist activist'. It's getting deleted for POVvery. --Aim Here 22:43, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Latest changes 20 October 2006
I've reverted back. The articles that have trivia sections shouldn't, see WP:Trivia, and Avoid trivia sections in articles. If the info is not important enough to write into the article itself then keep it out of the encyclopedia. For the plethora of external links, please see WP:EL, If the link passes the WP:RS test, write the info into the article and cite the link as a source. Fansites, and biased attack sites need not apply. Cheers. L0b0t 16:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * External links needs trimming, undoubtedly, but a lot of the information in the trivia section is actually relevant to ISD's article. If we can work it into the article text, great, but wholesale deletion probably isn't the answer in this case.
 * Also, I've created a references section to try to get some of this into manageable format. -- nae'blis 16:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Awesome, sounds good to me. Let's incorporate away. Cheers. L0b0t 16:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Johnny Rebel, Otis and the 3 bigots. Landser even covers a Johnny Rebel song Afrika Lied is a German adaptation of Ship Those Niggers Back.  Landser even incorporates the chorus of Who Likes a Nigger (another Rebel song) into the ending of Afrika Lied. I'mnot saying Skrewdriver was not the driving force behind the modern hardcore, punky, oi type of WP music, but they were not the first WP band, they missed that by about 30 years.  Cheers. L0b0t 22:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Lemmy Kilmister & Suggs
Ian Stuart said they were friends with motorhead members. Mitsos 13:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

''4: Kev and Ian later formed a Manchester version of the band. Were you any part of that? 14: Yes, I played in that band, I can only remember doing one gig. MOTORHEAD at Queen Marys Hall in Blackburn. We lived in a rented house in Longsight, Manchester. I think this line-up was with Phil back and Chris Cumming joining in on guitar. That was the best line up we had. Ian wrote some good songs and we made some tapes but Chiswick did not like the change of direction. (Around this period the band recorded the single "Built Up, Knocked Down" for TJM which was to be their last material until the NF era of the '80's.)'' Spylab 13:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the actual quote in the reference, which doesn't support what is being claimed in the Wikipedia article. It says nothing about being friends with anybody. Feel free to find a reference that actually backs up the claim.

Wrong.

YOU PLAYED WITH A LOT OF BANDS THAT BECAME BIG NAMES, WERE YOU EVER GOOD FRIENDS WITH THESE NOW BIG NAMES?
 * We played with Motörhead, this was a lot later, they were really decent blokes. We would always have a drink with the other bands´ members if we were at one of their gigs. We often had drinks with Jimmy Pursey and the likes. One person that we were very good mates with was Stick Smith, he was in a band called Shag Nasty, who used to support us all of the time. I used to let them support us mainly because their guitarist looked like Keith Richards! Anyway, he went on to play for X-Ray Spex, we had a few arguments about it, but he was a decent sort of bloke. When we played with the Police we had a drink and chat with Sting, they borrowed our P.A at that gig. The Damned were really good blokes, we supported them a lot.

Mitsos 14:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That still doesn't prove that Ian Stuart was "close" with Lemmy. It just shows that he drank with some of the bands Skrewdriver played with. Spylab 14:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

He drank with motorhead members, and that means that he was close with (not a friend) them, and that inclued Lemmy. Mitsos 14:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Having a few beers with members of a band you just played a concert with doesn't mean you are "close." In the English language, being close with someone means you are very good friends. So far nobody has produced reliable sources showing Ian Stuart was "close" with Lemmy Kilmeister. When those references are provided, the info can be included in the article. Spylab 14:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. But I removed "after Stuart became known in the press as an outspoken racist" because they were still friends when Donaldson became known as an "outspoken racist". See the source. Mitsos 14:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is the quote:

ARE YOU STILL IN CONTACT WITH SUGGSY, WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THAT YOU HEARD FROM HIM ? ''No, I’m not in contact, not since the article in the Sun newspaper, I didn’t try and contact him and he didn’t try and contact me, which is fair enough, he’s got to make a living and if he’s mixing with a nationalist he is gonna find it hard to make a living. We didn’t fall out or anything like that and as far as I know we were still on good terms with eachother, I’ve got nothing against the bloke, he’s done me a lot favours in the past. He’s just trying to make a living. If he wants to make a living like that, its up to him. I’ve got no intention of slagging him off, and why should I ?''

That quote does imply that Suggs parted ways with Ian Stuart after a newspaper article revealed that Stuart is a racist. I will revert the sentence to reflect that. Spylab 16:51, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Is the trivia section necessary? Only as a last chance ditch to espouse someones point of view? As all the trivia here leans in a certain direction. There are several other articals on wiki about more prominent artists/personalities that dont include a trivia section, even though if one was to dig around they are sure to find something. Is the trivia really relevant or important? PyrE 06:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Trivia section removed. Articles should never contain a trivia or in popular culture section.  That will kill an article's chances at GA or FA quick as a wink. K1ng l0v3 14:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ian front.jpg
Image:Ian front.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Ian Closet Homo
I have read an interview that ian claims to be back stabbed by nicky crane. it was widely known nicky did security for gay nightclubs and other in the movemnet saw this as a hint but ian defended him. Sickero (talk) 07:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Donaldson a Closeted Gay??
It's been alleged that Stuart may have been gay; he had worked as a bouncer at a gay clubs, and later on, Skrewdriver Security chief Nicky Crane came out as gay (Ian and Nicky were reportedly "very close"). Any truth to this? There are quotes by Donaldson denouncing Crane, but perhaps that was indicative of the fact that like all violent homophobes, he was only repressing his true feelings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.234.140 (talk) 02:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Ian was gay. . . he had girlfriends, some lookers too, big rock star y'know. . . but still. . . some of the Viking imagery on their album covers does seem a little. . . Tom of Finland.


 * Several of the album covers were drawn by Nick Crane. Such as Hail The New Dawn, White Rider and After The Fire. -unsigned by 86.22.210.219

Anyway, not a "racist" (whatever that means . . . bonehead adrenalin junkie with victimization issues) but a punk fan with All Skrewed Up, Boots and Braces, and especially Hail the New Dawn in my UK Punk Top 20. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.252.240.45 (talk) 11:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

"Peel Session"
Peel Session (1977) BBC Radio 1

What the hell is that?! It isn't a recorded or released Skrewdriver CD, therefore it should be taken out of the discography. Beaver Patrol (talk) 11:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/johnpeel/sessions/1970s/1977/Oct19skrewdriver/ --Sexecutioner (talk) 06:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

coroner's statements
If someone can find a source for these newly added statements about Donaldson's death, great. Otherwise I'll delete as unfounded rumor/speulation in a few days. I'm going to leave a note for the editor on their own talk page as well. -- nae'blis (talk) 03:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nae'blis, there's nothing like the passage of time to make memories fade! For the proof you are looking for, one can try local newspaper reports and some of the "Oi!" fanzines of the period (most of whom openly celebrated ISD's death, blaming him for wrecking the "Oi!" movement). It was the Coroner's Report that kickstarted the whole "Donaldson was murdered" rumour mill in the first place with the comments on the steering column. It is common practice at inquests into sudden deaths (ie. accidents, suicides) for the reports to leave "open verdicts" on details that they cannot provide a conclusive explanation for (eg. time of death if the body is too badly composed) - this is the "smoking gun" for the conspiracy theorists to jump in with both feet in the mouth.

This is exactly what happened in the Donaldson case. Anyone familiar with Britain's far right will appreciate that "the state are out to get us" tales are common currency amongst its members, particularly during those periods in its history when they were very much in the wilderness, ignored by the public, and needing to keep their own morale up - for a classic example, see Nick Griffin's "Attempted Murder" booklet of the 1980s about the supposed "government plot" to destroy the National Front in the 1980s during the great Political Soldiers vs Flag NF bunfight.

As for Donaldson, the "murdered by the State" claimants forget that if Donaldson WAS murdered by the State, they would hardly all the courts to deliver a verdict allowing any room for doubt that it was an accident!) Compare what happened there to the likes of Willie McRae or Hilda Morrell. (talk)11:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that Donaldson made an unprovoked attack upon an innocent tree with his car. Do we know how the tree is? Streona 19:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Getting counseling but doing as well as can be expected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.148.1.235 (talk) 15:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it was the brown bark that did it. --86.134.7.81 (talk) 00:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Veganism?
I never heard that Ian Stuart was a vegan. I wonder where that came from.
 * I wonder if that idea came from Ian A. Stuart's Animal Bible? -- nae'blis 19:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hitler was a vegan, maybe Stuart learned from him. I wonder where he learned to drive though. Am tag als ian stuart starb, alle punker sangen, das war ein schöner tag. ;) 71.68.17.141 15:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Die Frage wo Du Schreiben gelernt hast, finde ich viel spannender. :) 89.61.158.193 (talk) 04:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Hitler was not vegan or vegetarian and neither was Ian.

Correction: Hitler WAS a vegetarian. If you don't even know that, then why should we take your word on Ian?


 * Hitler professed vegetarianism, but seems not to have been. He consumed some meat. If memory serves, he described vegetarianism as the correct diet for Aryans (or something), but this is likely to have been a justification after the fact as he apparently had difficulty digesting meat. Charlycrash (talk) 11:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

So-called "assassination"
It says "assassinated". That's a far-right theory but never proved. He died in a car crash, and no proof of outside involvement was found. This page should say how he died and refrain from editorialising. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Justic (talk • contribs) 2006-02-04 18:17:59 (UTC)
 * You caught the article just after it had been vandalized; that section has been reverted to the previous, more-NPOV text. Thanks for noticing it though! -- nae'blis (talk) 18:03, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

"Assassination"? He got SHOT. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 01:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

He drove into a tree. Perhaps this was planted by ZOG arboriculturlists? My sympathies are with the tree.--Streona (talk) 22:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Huzzah! Evil Jooish trees are everywhere! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.148.1.235 (talk) 15:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I am really happy he is dead to be honest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.219.19 (talk) 19:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Unbiased in general
Im suprised how unbiased this article is, though id say well done to the patrollers who keep the article unbiased (for bias..see the bnp article) No unfounded statements, slurs and stupid comments Fethroesforia 13:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

One thing though, why does this page continue witht the myth that the 'original' Skrewdriver were not a racist band? Maybe they had no openly racist lyrics but as confirmed by the links at the foot of the page Ian and the drummer were both members of the NF before the band split and the original band members had no problem with the 'New Skrewdriver' not to mention that the former band members openly say that Ian was a racist long before he became 'open' about it.

Too much 'revisionist history' on here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.29.234 (talk) 15:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Mark Radcliffe played drums for the earlier version of Skrewdriver for a period, and in his book ("Showbusiness: diary of a rock'n'roll nobody") says that there was to his knowledge nothing racist about Skrewdriver while he was involved, and he does indeed seem to have a problem with the subsequent direction. Sadly I can't find my copy, but this is quoted elsewhere and matches what I remember: "Don't misunderstand me, I'm not defending the odious extremism he later adopted, it's just that there was no sign of it at this point. The name Skrewdriver is now synonymous with ultra-right-wing supremacist dogma, and that's a sad betrayal of the ideals and efforts of everyone else involved with the band in those early days." Graham Clark (talk) 23:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC) Graham Clark (talk) 23:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

What about this bit, under Career section: 'Anti-Fascist Action organized a protest, which resulted in physical confrontations.' Intentional or not, the grammar of that sentence places causal responsibility for 'physical confrontations' on the protestors. Surely it's possible that the bands supporters initiated violence, while the protestors might have been peaceful (or at least initially peaceful). This should be re-written for NPOV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.5.64.141 (talk) 15:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

RfC
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:47, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
Fixed some grammar. Changed 'punk band' to 'rock band', as their sound changed a lot over the years. Corrected the part about Stigger - he is a real person, not, as claimed, a band from Germany. -Hremmnoth 11:15, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

FDB Interview link
I removed the link to the FDB interview with Dave Hann. It only mentions Ian Staurt in one section, and even then its only to denigrate him. FDB is hardly a reliable source, and is definitely not neutral. SlayerOfKings

Also just removed the two searchlight article links as they were giving 404's

Assassination
Why does his assassination keep getting covered up?112.198.83.66 (talk) 06:56, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Because he wasn't assassinated. Better question - why does the fact that he was arguably gay and Jewish keep getting covered up? 82.32.160.97 (talk) 00:46, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

ho ho ho. got a real comedian here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.149.136 (talk) 01:47, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Better yet, why is this eejit even considered notable? A "musician" with no hit records and no noteworthy albums (thankfully). He was top of the flops! Fred West could have released a song and stand a better chance of getting in the top 40!