Talk:Ian Watkins (Lostprophets singer)/Archive 1

Personal attack removed
I removed some POV material, please don't revert back to it until you can supply some sources for the singers specific thoughts about music critics. Some of the stuff I removed was pretty unsalvagable POV. Please see WP:NPOV and WP:CITE for some guidelines that we use for inclusion of neutral material. And plese don't use personal attacks, you can see the policy at WP:NPA. Thanks, Rx StrangeLove 00:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Picture
I don't suppose anyone wants to add a picture. DavidJJJ 08:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC) I want to add one but I don't know how to add it yet. I tried a couple of times but failed. Anyone want to show me how to add one? Shrimpster 3:01 PM, 13 November 2006

Birth Year
In the "Behind the Scenes of A Town Called Hypocrisy" documentary (filmed in 2006!), Ian Watkins replies "27" in an age-related conversation. Which makes him born in 1979. So, unless there is a source for that 1977 thing, I think we should stick to 1979. Violethope 18:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I recently asked Ian what year he was born, And he said 1979.
 * Same goes for Guitarist Mike Lewis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nattie x (talk • contribs) 16:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC).
 * The birth year is 1979, who keeps changing it back to 1977? Omightyben 10:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC) Ben
 * Also to be mentioned, should be the fact that in the Kerrang! 8 page special on lostprophets, it does say that Ian was born in 1977 and that Mike Lewis and him were in the same year. :)
 * User:simplykay, 30 May 2007
 * I got proof that Ian Watkins got born in 1979 her
 * That is not a reliable source. Seraphim&hearts;   Whipp 17:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The BBC Wales website says he was born on 1977-07-30.-- JediLofty User ¦ Talk 15:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Please see my other comment in reference to Ian's name. His DOB IS definately 30/07/77. Thanks (Desirrred (talk) 08:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)).

Musicians and actors always lie about their ages. They usually shave 2 or 3 years off. Of course it's getting harder to do this in the Internet age and the truth will always out. Looking at him, wrinkles wise, I would say it isn't hard to believe that he is 35 years old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.179.184 (talk) 21:16, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

4 A.M. and Always Always
It hasn't said ANYWHERE that the songs were written about Fearne Cotton. It wasn't even stated anywhere officially that Ian or Fearne were dating. However, Ian did have a long and solid relationship with Marissa Festa (according to his first myspace in 2003). I'm pretty sure that they are more about her not of Fearne.

Formality and tone
The childish prattle that keeps being added to this article needs to be stopped. This is an encyclopedia, not a teenage blog page. TomGreen 11:26, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Whoever keeps changing the DOB to 1979 and adding info relating to Ian's private life (who he's supposedly "dating") based on rumour and speculation and what others put on their own internet pages, stop now. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Telling people not to edit this page isn't very productive. Anyone can edit wikipedia. Granted, inserting information based on speculation and rumour is NOT appropriate for a biography. However, information from reliable media coverage IS acceptable, which is exactly what I have tried to do, using sources to back up any questionable information. Can the media report things wrongly? Of course they can, but the media coverage is what we have to go on. If Ian was address the controversial information directly then we would include that in this article.

The rumour about Ian dating Ivy Levan might be true or it might not be; it's not my place to have an opinion. Let's imagine he's not dating Ivy. Now let's imagine he's dating someone else called Apple (fictional person). Now imagine that his wikipedia entry says he's dating Ivy Levan and there's no reference for it and Apple reads that incorrect information. That's pretty hurtful...

What people have to remember when editing an article about a living person, is that all questionable and controversial edits need to be backed up by references to prove that the information is reliable and not original research.

Seraphim Whipp 23:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what has recently happened due to internet bs and chit chat. I'm "Apple" btw :( (Desirrred (talk) 16:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC))

Kerslake or Carslick
A variety of editors have switched his name between "Ian David Carslick Watkins" and "Ian David Kerslake Watkins". Can we find a reliable source that can decide this one way or the other? -- JediLofty User ¦ Talk 15:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a good friend of Ian's and I can assure you his name IS Ian David Karslake Watkins and his DOB is 30/07/1977. The only reason I can think that people are mistaken on the spelling of Karslake is that a few years ago Lee and Ian were asked questions about each other in an interview and Lee incorrectly spelt the name or the magazine did. Trust me my info is extremely reliable (Desirrred (talk) 08:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC)).

Hes born at 19 December 1985, he isnt so a old idiot.Unbekannte Spezies (talk) 17:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Lostprophets are not a boyband.
Nor is Ian's Genre "Pop punk". 91.111.13.35 (talk) 19:06, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Protect, protect, protect.
I've lodged a protection request for this page, given recent events doktorb wordsdeeds 10:10, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I might post on ANI asking for a quick protect..  Я ehevkor ✉  10:16, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I did consider it first thing this morning, but I didn't think a couple of IP's with a handful of edits was quite enough at that point. Perhaps I should have pre-empted. -- wintonian  talk  19:18, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It was only likely to get worse. And especially now the story has become even more troubling..  Я ehevkor ✉  19:32, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 December 2012
I want to put in an edit request for the wikipedia entry of Ian Watkins, Lostprophets lead vocalist.

The page should not be vandalised and edited by stupid kids.

Mikey2201 (talk) 10:27, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It has now been protected by those using new accounts or editing without an account. BencherliteTalk 10:30, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I watched Lostprophets live last month and I do not believe that he would do something like this. I know this a new account but I am a long time fan of Lostprophets. Would you give me access to keep this post accurate at all times? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikey2201 (talk • contribs) 11:05, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Message re WP:AUTOCONFIRMED on your talk page. BencherliteTalk 11:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

"I watched Lostprophets live last month and I do not believe that he would do something like this." oh wow man, you need to contact the police with this vital information. ẈỄ'ḸḼ ṪḜḀṘ ỶƠṴṜ ṠǾṸḶ ḀṖẤṘṮ... Ǐ Đŏ Ñőť Ŗëșρθ₦ḏ Ẁ€ḷḹ Тό Ḉṟḭṭịḉḯṧṃ 13:03, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

is there ANYWAY we can appeal the normal rules of this site and get this comment added to the article on the basis its one of the best things i have read on the internet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.185.139 (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

issue with lost profets page not linking to here and remboval of Mr Watkins from that page...
Band Members Change? (page vandalised?) (I copied this from my post on the Lostprofets page)

Hi, Ian Watkins is listed as a former band member and the link to his personal wiki page has been removed. This is all in the band membership section. I am assuming this has been done by someone following the abuse claim, unless he has left the band due to the claim (not on the news if he has) Can someone rectify or clarify this this before the page gets locked? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Missannafjmorris (talk • contribs) 11:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That has now been fixed; you don't need to make the same request in multiple locations. BencherliteTalk 11:44, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Old rumours and allegations
Since when did it become acceptable to insert rumours and allegations sourced to tabloids and gossip sites into biographies of living people? It is irrelevant that you say that they are false, or that you add a note that the allegations were officially denied, particularly when your wording undermines that denial. The allegations are tabloid trash and have no place in a biographical article in an encyclopaedia. BencherliteTalk 13:24, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * These allegations have appeared in reliable sources, not just 'tabloid trash', see . WP:BLPCRIME does not prevent including these accusations. Zarcadia (talk) 13:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Different story entirely. You will notice that when I semi-protected the article earlier and deleted about 50 edits from the page history for violating WP:BLP I did not remove the child sex offence charges. Check the edit history for what I've recently removed, though. BencherliteTalk 13:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I see. I thought this was referring to the allegations being reported today. I think you were right to remove what you did, gossip sites don't count as RS. Zarcadia (talk) 13:54, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * BBC News is reporting right now that Watkins has pleaded guilty to charges of child abuse, including one of planning to rape a baby. Nasty stuff so I'll leave it to someone else to add to the page.Smidoid (talk) 14:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 January 2013
2. Would you please change: "On 31 December he appeared via video link from Parc Prison, Bridgend at Cardiff Crown Court along side two unnamed females and was remanded in custody until 11 March 2013."

To: "On 31 December he appeared via video link from Parc Prison, Bridgend at Cardiff Crown Court alongside [redacted, see below] (the identity of whom had not previously been disclosed to the public) and Watkins was remanded in custody until 11 March 2013."

3. The suggested changes made to the above posting (i.e. the names of two women who have been charged with similar offences to those faced by Watkins) were disclosed by the Court on their website (www.thelawpages.com). Furthermore, the information is available to anyone who wishes to conduct a search on the website using the date of the hearing and Watkins' surname.

Justice4Believers (talk) 11:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The identity of his co-accused is not important enough, in my view, to warrant inclusion in a biographical article about Watkins. In any event, if the BBC News source says they cannot be named for legal reasons, then the fact that their names were included on the Cardiff Crown Court daily list isn't a good enough reason to thwart that ruling. Such rulings are only made when there is a good reason for them, so I've also removed their names from your post. BencherliteTalk 12:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 23:18, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Ian Watkins (entertainer) → Ian Watkins (musician) – I wanted to move it to this page, but I need help from an admin to delete the original page. This is the uniformly used title name for any musician and thus, it should be for this article. Relisted. BDD (talk) 17:03, 14 October 2013 (UTC)   srsrox  BlahBlahBlah...   15:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * NOTE: DELETE REQUEST: I would also like the original page Ian Watkins (musician) to be deleted.

I wanted to note that there is another musician, but I believe that this musician is much more notable than the other musician. That's where I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.   srsrox  BlahBlahBlah...   15:55, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hold on. Ian Watkins (musician) is a redirect to a disambiguation page. If you're saying you want it deleted to move this article there, yes, that will happen if this move is successful. If you're saying you want the article on the other Ian Watkins deleted, you should list it at WP:AFD. --BDD (talk) 21:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you help? I really don't want to do this all because there's a lot to be done besides requests for deletion. There's also a ton of links pointing to the disambiguous pages that'll need to be fixed too. For more help, I've posted also here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rock_music#Ian_Watkins   srsrox  BlahBlahBlah...   17:16, 3 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Inasmuch as singers are "musicians", wouldn't Ian "H" Watkins also be a musician? —  AjaxSmack   21:14, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Comment. There are currently two Ian Watkins that are musicians, so Ian Watkins (musician) should be a disambiguation page regardless of whether or not we have a primary topic. The current page views are higher for the Lostprophets Ian Watkins though I would call WP:RECENT on that rather than WP:PRIMARYTOPIC due to his current legal problems.

I see from the page history of the Lostprophets Ian W that the page was at Ian Watkins (Lostprophets) for 2 years until recently and has been moved without discussion or consensus. I propose move back to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets), which is the most precise article title. Leave Ian "H" Watkins where it is, and redirect Ian Watkins (entertainer) and Ian Watkins (musician) to the disambiguation page Ian Watkins. Note this is not a WP:TWODABS situation as there is also a Ian Watkins (rugby player). Zarcadia (talk) 13:00, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone moved it back. I think I know why too. Ian Watkins (Lostprophets) is not a proper Wikipedia article title name (not a standard name), so I don't think it'll stick.   srsrox  BlahBlahBlah...   17:31, 4 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose as proposed, both "entertainer" and "musician" should redirect to the disambiguation page, as we have two musicians and musicians are all entertainers. Ian Watkins (born 1977) works well enough; the other one was born 1976. Unfortunately all thre IWs are Welsh, so disambiguating by ethnicity and nationality and citizenship are all out. -- 76.65.129.3 (talk) 23:09, 5 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Move back to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets) for the same reasons as Zarcadia. I assume Srsrox is citing WP:NCDAB above ("avoiding proper nouns, as much as possible") but that isn't a reason to leave a longer and less obvious primary topic in place. Leave Ian "H" Watkins alone for now, but just to throw a comment into the mix, I see previous precedent has allowed Fergie (singer) to stick, against Fergie, Fergie and Fergie. Based on that, we could have H (singer) as his primary topic, as I'm sure most people recognise him as "H from Steps" rather than "Ian Watkins". Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   11:41, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Neither musician/entertainer nor their most notable groups, Steps and Lostprophets, are insignificant, but none of them are exactly household names either. The current setup of the DAB at Ian Watkins with redirects there from both Ian Watkins (entertainer) and Ian Watkins (musician) should be retained. Perhaps there's a better disambiguator for Ian Watkins (singer born 1977), but the discussion is a bit convoluted and the first thing is to clear the air so we can then focus on that question. Andrewa (talk) 18:10, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Years Active?
It could be argued that, due to legal proceedings, Ian Watkins isn't actually active at this present moment. Therefore, shouldn't it be changed to 1995-2012? He hasn't done any work since his arrest, obviously, and his band have since split up - so he's not even in a band at the moment. Therefore, I think that the article should be changed accordingly to reflect these changes. Of course, others may disagree with me. 178.78.66.136 (talk) 16:53, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * He is just one person in the band, the band itself it could be argued has been active in 2013, just announcing the split is an "activity". Who's to say they haven't been rehearsing, writing or simply meeting as a band in 2013?  Я ehevkor ✉  17:01, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * We are discussing Ian Watkins, not Lostprophets as a whole, this is the Ian Watkins talk page. 178.78.66.136 (talk) 23:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, disregard me then. I was confusing a similar issue at the LP page.  Я ehevkor ✉  08:39, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Article title
He is known for being the singer with Lostprophets - a band which has now split up - rather than for his year of birth. It seems reasonable to assume, at the moment, that a solo career is unlikely - so, I suggest that the article be moved back to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets), or Ian Watkins (Lostprophets singer). Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:12, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Requested move (November)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets); the disambiguation page will stay where it is. We have no consensus that this singer is the primary topic for "Ian Watkins", but a rough consensus that a move will be more recognizable and less unweildy. Cúchullain t/ c 17:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

– I know it was me who moved the page to its current title but it was only to fix what was a little inaccurate, given that "H" is a musician as well. But this guy I believe is more famous, what do you think? Or alternatively, H could be moved to just "H (singer)" or "H from Steps", like what User:Ritchie333 suggested, as I think more people know him as "H" rather than Ian Watkins. Unreal7 (talk) 14:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Ian Watkins (singer born 1977) → Ian Watkins
 * Ian Watkins → Ian Watkins (disambiguation)
 * This is a toughie, but I support the above. The current naming is awkward and it needs to be changed. This Watkins is more famous, and is better known as Ian Watkins. The other is better known as "H" and that gives his article disambiguation already. Ian "H" Watkins is fine where it is though.  Я ehevkor ✉  16:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I support these moves as well, there isn't enough singers with this name to have such an awkward title. Jonjonjohny (talk) 16:33, 5 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Support because this singer is better known by this name, whilst the other one is better known as "H". If further disambiguation is necessary I would also support a move to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets). Green Giant (talk) 23:40, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose -Ian Watkins may refer to:
 * Ian "H" Watkins (born 1976), member of Steps
 * Ian Watkins (singer born 1977) (born 1977), former lead singer of Lostprophets
 * Ian Watkins (rugby player) (born 1963), Wales international rugby player
 * Is any of these 3 WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? No, not judging from Google Books. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:28, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Support - It definitely has to be moved because the current title is "unusual" at least. Whether it should be "Ian Watkins" or "Ian Watkins (singer)", I'll let the others decide.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 10:03, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Support, more famous. Torquemama007 (talk) 13:20, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose due to no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. I still believe this article should be moved to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets) which is a more recognizable title. Zarcadia (talk) 22:12, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Support, more famous, I too would support a move to Ian Watkins (Lostprophets). - 15:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - no primary topic. Support renaming this article.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:29, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.