Talk:Ibibio-Efik languages

Move to 'Efik'
Correction: In actuality, Efik, because of it's importance in trade and other such activities, is widely spoken by Annang and Ibibio people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.245.9.101 (talk • contribs)


 * It might hold for both. Ibibio, sometimes seens as a dialect of Efik, is numerically the most important of such dialects and is according to Kaufman (1979) different enough from Efik to warrant separate description. In the region where it is spoken, it is also important in trade, but I can well imagine Ibibio people being also bilingual in Efik. &mdash; mark &#9998; 08:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The organisation of the 3 languages is incorrect. Efik is the official language name and the name by which the group of 3 languages together are known. The 3 sub languages are then Ibibio, Anaang and Efik. Even though Efik has the least speakers, it's the official name. So the redirect should not be to the "Ibibio Language" it should be to the "Efik Language".


 * Ethnologue would seem to agree, so moved. Pls provide refs if you object to it being called 'Efik'. — kwami (talk) 02:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Ibibio language template
If you are a native speaker of Ibibio then you can help translate this template into your own language:

Edit

--Amazonien (talk) 21:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Objection to Ibibio Language page Re-direct
Kwamikagami do you speak Efik? I doubt it because if you did you wouldn't want to move Efik language to a page written with Ibibio phrases! Efik is a different language and not the official spoken language in Akwa ibom State where Ibibio language is spoken. The 2 languages do have similarity just like Spanish and French, but the content of the page and phrases is still written in Ibibio, so the page name should have remained Ibibio Language Page! Seems you are from Ghana and you do not understand that are calling a page Spanish language while the content like phrases is written in French. [added by User:Ibibiogrl on 15:08, 2011 May 31]


 * If you want to clarify that the phrases are Ibibio, then you can write in the article that they're Ibibio, as I just did. It's not necessary to have two copies of the article, one called "Efik" and one called "Ibibio". In fact, per WP:content fork, we shouldn't have two copies of the article. — kwami (talk) 23:09, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Kwami Do Not Cofuse People who are trying to learn these languages! What I have a problem with is you calling it Ibibio-Efik??? What does that mean? Do you speak any of these languages? I doubt it because if you did there wouldn't be this arguements. Theses languages are just like Spanish, French and Italian. Is there a language called Spanish-French?. Ukwa is an igboid language. STOP Confusing People! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 23:23, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * We use English here. In English, the names Ibibio, Efik, and Ibibio-Efik are often used for the same thing. We explain that in the article. We also explain that the phrases are Ibibio rather than Efik proper. That shouldn't be confusing. As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything. We are based on WP:reliable sources, not on your opinions. Please read the welcome links on your talk page, so that you understand how things are done here. — kwami (talk) 01:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Then Take my language out of your Trash! You Are The Igorant One! Which English Word is Called Ibibio? Ibibio and Efik does not mean the same thing and is not the same language! Ukwa is an Igbo language & doesn't have anything to do with Ibibio and Efik language. You use english Here Right? But it's asking to interprete the page in Ibibio. An Ignorant person like you who knows nothing about these languages doesn't have any Right to edit a page that you know nothing about!


 * Actually, just as well you deleted the phrases. We're an encyclopedia, not a dictionary or phrasebook. — kwami (talk) 01:38, 1 June 2011 (UTC
 * You really need to take my advice and learn how things work around here. This petulant behaviour of yours will just get you WP:blocked, as someone else has already warned you. If you want to discuss changes to the article, fine. But you need sources for your claims, and so far your edits have been incoherent, such as denying that Efik is Ibibio, and then describing how it is Ibibio. — kwami (talk) 08:39, 2 June 2011 (UTC)


 * What more source do you need? I am a native Ibibio, I speak the language, I also speak Efik language only because I've lived in Calabar. I gave you the online Ibibio dictionary already. Why did you believe that the phrases were written in Ibibio??? If Ibibio and Efik means the same thing?
 * I told you the 2 languages were like Spanish and French( Ibibio: Aba die? Efik: Etie didie? Spanish: Cómo estás? French: Comment ça va?), Worst still they're not even spoken in the same state. Am not the one who wrote those phrases, also I don't think the original ibibio group who created the page have not yet realized that you've ruin the whole page.
 * The page was created to help Akwa Ibomites who haven't lived in Akwa Ibom before to learn their language. I Don't think you are a Nigerian because I wouldn't be having these arguements with you.
 * I've written a whole lecture on this if you need more sources check; http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=609355.msg8248002#msg8248002 and http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=244880.msg6497335#msg6497335 Ibibiogrl (talk) 23:16, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not just a matter of sources, but of intelligible edits. When you're done with the article, it's inconsistent and incoherent. I don't care what your sources are, that's just bad writing. And in any case some blog you post does not count as a source. See WP:reliable sources.


 * We can have separate articles on Ibibio and Efik, if you care to develop them. But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful. — kwami (talk) 21:12, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The NAIRALAND Blog I Posted is Much More Reliable Than Wikipedia! It is not BIASED like Wikipedia which takes the views of somebody like you who doesn't know anything about Ibibio and Efik, over me a Native.


 * "nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful"
 * RE-READ your sentences again and tell me who is incoherent and Who needs Common sense!
 * How can somebody write an Efik topic without including Efik? Again there's nothing like Ibibio-Efik, there's either Ibibio or Efik!
 * Since you insist on Editing Nigerian Languages, You should visit Nairaland and Read about the Nigerian people, so you will understand who they are and not make ignorant comments like Ibibio-Efik, or include Ukwa(an Igboid language) under Efik and Ibibio langauges.
 * The Original page was talking about IBIBIO LANGUAGE! Alone! That page has been like that for over 5yrs, am sure there were many Efiks who read it and didn't see anything wrong with it, because it wasn't talking about their Efik language. But you who did not know anything about these languages change it to Efik Language, because you thought they were stupid writing about Efik language without including it?
 * Why don't you return the Ibibio language page back to how it was in February and leave the Efik language page for me to develop with the real Efik language, am sure there are many Efiks who will update it more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 19:39, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * KWAMI! Am still Waiting for you to Return the Ibibio Language page to how it was in February. You can begin Efik language page I will develop it only after you have returned the Ibibio page back to how it was.
 * I wouldn't bother much about this, except that it's my language an this Wikipedia link shows up when searched more than other credible pages. Also on facebook it shows up as Ibibio-Efik, making it difficult for people to select which language the speak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 23:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't throw a tantrum. You're not getting that incoherent version back. Say what you want, as above, provide references, as above, and I'll see what I can do. Otherwise, go away. I won't reply further unless you provide something relevant to respond to. — kwami (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Again you need to READ all your above responses & tell me who is Incoherent and Irrelevant. First you said to provide sources, I did then you said;
 * "We can have separate articles on Ibibio and Efik, if you care to develop them"


 * I told you to return the Ibibio language page back 1ST cause according to U, we cannot have two of the same pages. Now You Are Saying What??? See what you can do as per What? Why did you edit a language that you Knew Absolutely Nothing About? Or is this your Personal website that you can do anything You Want?
 * I don't need to give you anymore Sources because it's as easy as googleing Efik Language and you will see it's completely different from Ibibio language. Also the nairaland page had outside links. But incase your vision is limited or you're too lazy to search, here are sources again.

Efik Language http://www.maobongoku.com/maobong_mypeople_efiklang_origin.htm and    http://www.maobongoku.com/maobong_mypeople_efiklang_orthography.htm and http://www.archive.org/stream/efiklanguage00unafrich/efiklanguage00unafrich_djvu.txt

Same above website that had a book on Efik language also has different books on ibibio language http://www.archive.org/details/rosettaproject_ibb_detail-1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:22, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Although am sure that you had already realized this unless You Are extremely Slow etc. THESE LINKS WILL FUTHER CLARIFY THAT THESE LANGUAGES ARE SEPARARTE & NOT THE SAME!


 * Ibibio language http://globalrecordings.net/en/langcode/ibb and http://coral.lili.uni-bielefeld.de/Courses/Summer04/Lexicography/IbibioDictionary/ibibio_dictionary01.pdf


 * Did you see any of those pages talking about Ibibio-Efik??? I told you there is nothing like Ibibio-Efik escept here on wikipedia Thanks to you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The fact that you are not familiar with Ibibio-Efik does not mean it does not exist. Take Oko Essien, an Ibibio, who wrote A grammar of the Ibibio language in 1990. He says, in Ibibio names: their structure and their meanings:


 * The name Ibibio, or Ibibio-Efik (as it is referred to by Greenberg) is applied to a group for the most part speaking mutually intelligible dialects including Ibibio, Efik, Annang, Eket, Ibeno, Andoni and Oron.


 * According to oral tradition and written historical sources, [refs] the Ibibio people are made up of smaller units or subgroups among whom are the Annang, the Efik, the Eket, the Oron and the Ibeno. Using geographical labels, Forde and Jones categorize these Ibibio sub-groups thus:
 * Annang — Western Ibibio
 * Efik — Riverain Ibibio
 * Eket — Southern Ibibio
 * Oron — Southern Ibibio
 * Ibeno — Delta Ibibio
 * and,
 * Unless explicitly stated, Ibibio is used generically to cover Ibibio proper, Annang and Efik in most contents in this book.
 * He prefers "Ibibio" as the cover term, others prefer "Efik" (which is why this page was moved), and still others prefer "Ibibio-Efik" so as not to elevate one group over the other. — kwami (talk) 23:29, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Where is UKWA in the above list? You said before that because am not familar with it does not mean that it doesn't exsit, So which ibibio sub-group is UKWA? Who is incoherent & Irrelevant Now & who needs Common sense??? So You Are Quoting a GreenBerg? Does GreenBerg know anything about Nigerian languages or Ibibio, does he speak Ibibio, also does Forde & Jones know anything detail about Nigerian languages? To them Youruba, Igbo and Ibibio are all the same. Then you accuse me of being incoherent???


 * So you are now calling them Ibibio sub-groups, I thought you moved the page because you claimed that according to your sources Efik was the main name and official language, you also said;


 * "In actuality, Efik, because of it's importance in trade and other such activities, is widely spoken by Annang and Ibibio people " and "It might hold for both. Ibibio, sometimes seens as a dialect of Efik, is numerically the most important of such dialects and is according to Kaufman (1979)" and "The organisation of the 3 languages is incorrect. Efik is the official language name and the name by which the group of 3 languages together are known. The 3 sub languages are then Ibibio, Anaang and Efik. Even though Efik has the least speakers, it's the official name. So the redirect should not be to the "Ibibio Language" it should be to the "Efik Language".


 * Now you are Changing Tune & Calling Them all Ibibio! YOU keep On Goning Around in circles. I will Not continue this arguements Again! Am going to do what I have to do as I refuse to see a Biased Website make a Joke of My Language. Am going to report this to the Akwa Ibom organisation who created the page, and Wikipedia will only have to delete the page because the will not be able to Block everybody.


 * Now you're contradicting yourself: You're complaining that this article needs to be called "Efik", but it is called Efik! How can I take you seriously when you say such things?


 * Also, I just read the Maobong site you linked to above. The best I can say about it is that whoever wrote it is utterly ignorant about the topic. Say what you want for this article coherently, so that people can understand you by reading your words, and supply reliable sources as references, not some random idiot who posted a web page.


 * As for you threat to disrupt Wikipedia if you do not get your way, we don't take kindly to that. If you carry through, we'll probably just protect this article so that you cannot edit it. If, however, editors from Ibibioland start disrupting the encyclopedia, we might have to put in a range block so that no-one from Ibibioland can edit any Wikipedia article. Hopefully your threat is just bluster and it won't come to that. — kwami (talk) 07:07, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


 * KWAMI YOU WROTE THIS! "The organisation of the 3 languages is incorrect. Efik is the official language name and the name by which the group of 3 languages together are known. The 3 sub languages are then Ibibio, Anaang and Efik. Even though Efik has the least speakers, it's the official name. So the redirect should not be to the "Ibibio Language" it should be to the "Efik Language".


 * YOU said that was your reason for deleting Ibibio language page and cerating the re-direct! The Original Page Was talikng about IBIBIO LANGUAGE alone! The dialect spoken by Ibibio's of Akwa Ibom State. The 3&1/2 million people are Ibibios. If Efiks. Annangs and all the rest where included it would've been almost 10 million! Also if you are calling it Ibibio-Efik, what about Ananng which has more native speakers than Efik?


 * You also said that under wikipedia rule two of the same pages cannot be created, why are you coping the Ibibio proper language page that I created and creating the same page again under ibibio dialect? Like I said you have should not be editing a page that you Know nothing About!


 * Mmaobong Oku is an Efik historian woman is writing the history of her ancestors using references from an original Efik language co-ordinator Elder Prince Ofion Akak, who has written several books on Efik Grammar http://www.maobongoku.com/maobong_mypeople_efiklang_author.htm and you claimed it's ignorant. You are the ignorant one who doesn't know anything about these languages it seems to me that you are just using this pages to exercise your administrators authorities. You are abusing that Power!


 * I have been contributing to wikipedia since 2008 as an anonymous, I thought it was great them allowing my contributions without requiring me to be a member. I just signed on recently because I thought somebody made an error changing Ibibio language page to Efik language. Obviously I was wrong because this is just a joke to you, and a playgound to test you admin powers!


 * I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY A THIRD PARTY HAS REFUSED TO STEP IN! BY your actions you have proved that you Do Not deserve to be an Administrator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:05, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


 * [note: spacing above has been adjusted and readjusted by two editors. Ibibiogrl's paragraphs still do not space properly for I don't know why.]


 * Ibibiogrl, if you have reliable sources that there are 10 million speakers, please provide them and we will correct the article.


 * Third parties are not taking your side because you're being rude. Instead, they're deleting and ignoring your comments. I'm sure if you spoke to your parents this way they would punish you before you finished half a sentence. If you want to be taken seriously, act seriously: Don't shout, don't attack and insult people, state clearly what you object to and what you want. We're not necessarily opposed to what you want, but you are estranging people with your poor behaviour. I've provided you with links to how to edit Wikipedia, but it's obvious you haven't read them, despite being here for (by your count) three years. — kwami (talk) 03:29, 14 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I was anonymous(so I dont know how to use all these edit) like I said I only signed on recently because I noticed that my comments was being ignored by you. Infact I thought before that you were an Efik and was wondering how you could make such a mistake as not noticing that the original page was talking about Ibibio language/dialect only!


 * As for sources about population am not going to go that route again with you as you keep ignoring or pretending not to notice the sources or go as far as calling the sources IGNORANT!


 * Am just going to quote it here for you from the Akwa Ibom wikipedia page (you can go to that talk page & battle it out as you usualy do)


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akwa_Ibom_State


 * "Akwa Ibom is one of Nigeria’s 36 states with a population of over 5 million people and more than 10 million people in diaspora"


 * Also about those who speak Efik language from Cross River Demographics wikipedia page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_River_State

"The State is composed of three major ethnic groups-these are the Efik, the Ejagham and the Bekwarra. The Efik language is very widely spoken in Cross River State, even as far as Arochukwu in neighboring Abia state. The Efik speaking people live mainly in the Calabar Municipality and Calabar South LGAs,and also in Bakassi,Akpabuyo,Odukpani and in parts of Akamkpa LGAs"


 * Did you see any claims about Efik language being spoken in Akwa Ibom State as Ibibio-Efik?


 * I keep telling you calling it "Ibibio-Efik" is wrong as there is no langauge that is mixed with Ibibio and Efik. It's either somebody is speaking Efik, or speaking Ibibio with it many dialects, or speaking Ananng with it many dialects etc. You can not make it to be 1 language and call it Ibibio-Efik and then Include Annang, Oron, Eket etc as dialects.


 * Most Importantly I signed on to explain to you as I have for almost a Month now that you should delete the Re-direct you made by deleting Ibibio language page and then calling it Efik language. You made Ibibio, Efik, Ananng, Oron, Eket etc into one language page.


 * These Languages are Different with Major Dialectical differences and the speakers cannot fully understand each other. Some cannot understand a word of what the other is speaking, I can say this as am one of these speakers.


 * All Am Saying is delete the re-direct you made in February and Return Ibibio Language page to how it was on February 16, 2011, wih it phrases included. Ibibiogrl (talk) 22:04, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I answered you on my talk page. As for your points here, (1) you are the one who deleted the phrases. That actually was a good thing, because we're not a phrase book. If you want to write an Ibibio phrase book, do it at Wikibooks. (2) You can't use another Wikipedia article as evidence for this one. (3) There is overwhelming sourced evidence that Ibibio–Efik is often treated as a single language. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant; see WP:IDONTLIKEIT. (4) The article as you wrote it was incoherent and nonsensical. If you want to write a coherent, sensible, sourced article on Ibibio proper, I encourage you to do it. And as I've said elsewhere, we can always move the Ibibio/Efik/Ibibio–Efik article to a new name. — kwami (talk) 07:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I did not delete the phrases, I deleted the re-direct and move the phrases with page back to Ibibio language. So the phrases were deleted from Efik language.
 * The article was only written about Ibibio language, ibibio proper if you want to call it that, but all Nigerians know that when Ibibio language is mentioned, it's only talking about the language spoken by ibibio's and Akwa Ibomites ONLY! There Has never been any confusion about these languages.


 * It is not about me liking it or not, It is about the truth! The Source evident about Ibibio-Efik is only here on Wikipedia and is WRONG! GreenBerg source is the actual Ignorant Source.
 * I DoNot need to write another article and called it Ibibio proper, Ibibio dialect etc. It was already written and Correctly called Ibibio language. And You KWAMI are the Insensible and Incoherent source who changed it to Efik language page thereby causing wikipedia to Protray LIES!
 * If you doubt that You Are the Insensible and Incoherent Source that cause the confusion, then check the Efik language article; It correctly stated in the 1st sentence that Efik language was a variation of Ibibio language providing a link to the Ibibio language page;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efik_people "The Efik are an ethnic group located primarily in southeastern Nigeria. 'Efik' is also the name of their language which is a variation of the Ibibio language. "
 * But since you changed the Ibibio language page to Efik language, You Are Causing More Confusion to People Reading that Article!

I do Not Need to call you names you have clearly shown that you cannot Comprehend a very simple notion.Ibibiogrl (talk) 16:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


 * So, whatever you believe is WP:TRUTH, and any other opinion is 'stupid'. I suppose that Oko Essien, the author of A grammar of the Ibibio language, is 'stupid' too, because he does not agree with you? You clearly have not learned how to work with other people, and until you do, it will be fruitless to try to work with you.


 * "The article was only written about Ibibio [proper]". No, it was written about Ibibio–Efik. Check the article as it was created: (the language of the Ibibio, Annang, and Efik people). If you want a separate article on Ibibio proper you're welcome to create one, if you're willing to do the work.


 * Until you learn basic WP:civility, I'm not going to bother with you any more. I have better things to do with my time. Good bye. — kwami (talk) 01:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Here is a source for classifification of the languages: http://www.journalofwestafricanlanguages.org/Files/pdf/24-1/JWAL-24-1-Connell.pdf This paper comes after greenberg. I believe the correct structure would be to classify Efik, Ananng and Ibibio as separate languages and then lump all other smaller languages as dialects. Otherwise this conflict will never end, because as more people of akwa-cross origin come online, they will come here and be shocked that their language is classified under a neighbouring language. There are many languages in wikipedia that have their own page, and less than 1 million native speakers. Ananng has more than a million native speakers, it deserves its own page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.5.79.72 (talk) 07:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Here is a source describing the differences between the languages: http://www.elanguage.net/journals/index.php/sal/article/viewFile/1189/1213 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.5.79.72 (talk) 07:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Dubious
The neutrality dispute can be found here: Dispute_resolution_noticeboard. Ukabia - talk 03:03, 22 August 2011 (UTC)