Talk:Icehouse (arena)

Move to 'Icehouse'
Hi guys, I know this page isn't very active but just thought I'd let you know that I've moved the page to Icehouse in place of its previous name, the commercial O'Brien Group Arena. There is a convention in place for Australian sporting venues where the non-commercial, non-naming rights name will be used in all circumstances for the title of an article. See this talk page discussion on Docklands Stadium if you want to learn more.

Cheers, Gibbsyspin 11:17, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Requested edit for move
Hi All,

Can we please request that the article name be changed back to O'Brien Group Arena? Per Wikipedia's policy guidelines, we felt it best to formally request a change to this article rather than make changes directly. O'Brien Group Arena is the full business name of the company, and not simply part of the corporate naming rights of a sporting venue. This leads us to believe that it's an exception to the Australian sporting venue convention that's been set up, and that therefore the article name should reflect that.KaleSBM (talk) 07:21, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Pinging to have a look. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:56, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

But it's such a terrible name, everyone still refers to it as the Icehouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.177.61.31 (talk) 01:47, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I wouldn't mind a larger discussion given that we have a conflict of interest in the requested edit (which I must commend for being so forthright and airing his connections early on in the piece). I think WP:COMMONNAME has to be a consideration; everyone I know still calls it the Icehouse. Gibbsyspin 02:00, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you . Regarding what you said about WP:COMMONNAME, the page also makes mention of Wikipedia following suit with sources written after name changes; from what I can find, most major sources written after the change use the term O'Brien Group Arena as the name. The page also talks about using a search engine to help collect the data, which also seems to favour O'Brien Group Arena. Does the fact that O'Brien Group Arena is the full business name have any factor in this argument, therefore having it more in line with stadiums such as the Staples Centre and The O2 Arena (as opposed to Subiaco Oval, whose name Domain Stadium, is only named as such through exclusive naming rights sponsorship)? KaleSBM (talk) 03:16, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia generally doesn't follow the full business name. It follows the most common name it has been referred to in the last (usually 20-30) years. Over here, I also realise that the area seems to be referred to Icehouse. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:27, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I would argue otherwise re: Staples and O2 Arena as both venues were opened with that as their name (read: there was/is no generic name) hence there really can be no other title. The Icehouse opened as the Icehouse for the first six or so months, was known as the Medibank Icehouse for over five years (and it was commonly known as simply the Icehouse, many people omitted the sponsor as you would do in casual conversation). I understand where you're coming from in regards to wanting the current sponsorship to be reflected across all platforms and as a marketing partner it makes sense. Maybe Princes Park (stadium) is a good example – currently known as Ikon Park, in fact the actual name of the reserve is Carlton Recreation Ground but a combination of the naming rights convention and WP:COMMONNAME sees Princes Park as its article title. I still would like a few more opinions on this but as I'm only on Wikipedia sporadically these days I'm not sure where to focus my attention to bring this to a bigger audience. Thanks for your patience in what may seem like a tedious and trivial issue. Cheers, Gibbsyspin 05:16, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks to everyone for contributing to this, and I'm also glad we can get more discussion surrounding this. I just wanted to add a couple of additional points. It's true that Icehouse was previously the common name, as it was the only name the arena had. The issue now is that since the move to O'Brien Group Arena, we need to determine what the current common name is. Using both online publications and search engine results as metrics, it shows that since the move, O'Brien Group Arena is used in favour of Icehouse; there doesn't seem to be a way to determine the extent to which Icehouse is used outside of these metrics. It may well have some users who still call it Icehouse but without more concrete measurements, it's not necessarily clear that Icehouse is in fact the more common name. The other point that  mentioned was regarding the "current sponsorship" of O'Brien Group Arena. To clarify, the O'Brien Group isn't a corporate naming-rights sponsor; O'Brien Group Arena is the full official name of the business (as opposed to similar-sounding sporting venues that do in fact have corporate naming sponsors, such as Etihad Stadium). This means that the name O'Brien Group Arena is not a transient one, nor will the name "revert" back to Icehouse at the end of any contract. With these points in mind, I believe that additional weight should be granted to the new name of the arena, as it's both the official name (not a transient naming-rights sponsor), and because the majority of major sources have been using it since the change. KaleSBM (talk) 00:54, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 22 December 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS. Although the official name has been changed, there is not consensus that the new official name is the COMMONNAME. If that changes in the future, the page could be moved. KSF T C 18:20, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Icehouse (arena) → O'Brien Group Arena – O'Brien Group Arena is the full business name of the arena, and is not simply the naming rights sponsor. This makes it an exception to the Australian sporting venue naming policy (as shown in the talk page discussion on Docklands Stadium. The arena hasn't been named Icehouse since the ownership transfer in 2015. Using both online publications and search engine results as metrics, it shows that since the move, the name O'Brien Group Arena is used much more frequently than Icehouse; there doesn't seem to be a way to determine the extent to which Icehouse is used outside of these metrics (and therefore to show its use as the most common name). The O'Brien Group isn't a corporate naming-rights sponsor; O'Brien Group Arena is the full official name of the business (as opposed to similar-sounding sporting venues that do in fact have corporate naming sponsors, such as Etihad Stadium). This means that the name O'Brien Group Arena is not a transient one, nor will the name "revert" back to Icehouse at the end of any contract. Note that this was previously listed as an edit request, and is now updated as a Requested Move. The talk page also has these details on the reasons behind the requested action. KaleSBM (talk) 03:37, 22 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:31, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Is there any way we can bring in some other voices on this? I'm as keen to reach a resolution as you are, Kale. Gibbsyspin 06:37, 28 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The entire point of WP:COMMONNAME is to reflect (oddly enough) what a subject is commonly called in English language sources, not its legal name. The article is named Rhode Island, not "Rhode Island and Providence Plantations."  The article is named Bill Clinton, not "William Jefferson Clinton." The article is named Boston Garden, not "Boston Madison Square Garden."  And so on. Icehouse+arena+Melbourne on Google Australia returns over sixty thousand hits.  "O'Brien Group Arena"+arena+Melbourne returns a fifth that many.  Done deal.   Ravenswing   15:06, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Yes, it's significant that this is not a sponsor's name. But that's not all that wp:official names and the policies and guidelines it summarises say, not by a long shot. And by the evidence above the proposed name is not the common name either. Andrewa (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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