Talk:Ides of March

Meaning
Yes, but what does the word ides mean? (look that up!)
 * The Ides of March is just one of a dozen Ides that occur every month of the year. See http://www.infoplease.com/spot/ides1.html


 * Actually, the Russian Wikipedia site has much clearer and apparently more correct explanation of the meaning - see http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%B4%D1%8B. It says, ides was the middle of the month in old calendar, which was 15th for 5 months and 13th for other 8 months. And the origin of the word is somewhat different. And apparently it has nothing to do with full moon.


 * Can somebody look into this and correct? Thanks!
 * Alex -- talk 20:15, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

AND ANNIE? "Caesar was assassinated on the annie after declaring himself..." Wouldn't anniversary or 1st anniversary be less obsequious? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.212.37 (talk) 12:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
changed to Iron Maiden, a NWOBHM band, have an instrumental piece named The Ides of March on their second album, Killers. instead of Iron Maiden, a British NWOBHM band, have an instrumental piece named The Ides of March on their second album, Killers. (British new wave of British heavy metal band doesn't make sense).

Singular or Plural
The article uses language that assumes the word "ides"--even when referring to a single day--is plural, but the etymology of the word certainly suggests that it is singular. So I'd think that "The ides were simply the middle of the month." should be "The ides was simply the middle of the month." or possibly "The ides were simply the midpoints each month."
 * "Ides" should be treated as the singular (I checked my dicitonary); the plural, though, is also "ides" (it doesn't change, just like "deer").Squad51 17:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * the Latin "idus" is plural, so perhaps this accounts for the confusion. Incidentally, this means that the Latin should be "idus martias" not "idus martiae", and I have corrected that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.166.46 (talk) 21:45, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

the band
Does this really need to be in here? A one hit wonder from 30 years ago doesn't seem to be deserving a an encyplopedic entry that would necessitate a disambig page, and I sincerely doubt even a small fraction of people looking at this entry are looking for the band. Charles 17:14, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

someone has been tampering with this article...."raped again, forced to soliciate oral sex to the decendants of Bill Gates"

Xena
are you joking me? what nerd put that trivia in there? I think it should be removed. Or, at the very least, shortened so that a summary description is not present. It's totally out of place.

But Xena is uber-hot! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.241.230 (talk) 05:43, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

"Revival" on Ides of March, 2006
Removed from article:
 * It was prophesied that revival will break out on college campuses throught the US on the Ides of March, 2006.

Revival of what? A source would be helpful here. &bull; WarpFlyght (talk) 05:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I asked the person who posted that for sources on their talk page. we'll see what happens.--B.U. Football For Life|Talk 05:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Page has been defaced
I believe this page has been defaced.
 * Yes, I just noticed it and reverted the vandalism. --Canley 11:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
I believe there's still some stuff left from the vandalism. Such as the amount of stabs. Man, that would be a badass death. >9000 stabs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.70.85 (talk) 20:18, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

More Vandalism
I don't think ARNOLD and pushups are relevant.
 * Of all the articles on Wikipedia to vandalize, why are people bothering to screw around with this one?

Another vandalism reverted.

Date Inconsistency?
In the Assassination section, we first learn that "On February 15, 41 BC, Caesar sat upon his gilded chair..." Yet later in the section we learn he was assassinated on the Ides of March (March 15th), in 44 BC. Wouldn't 44 BC have come before 41 BC? Should 41 BC really say 44 BC?

It's 44 BC according to this website: http://www.unrv.com/fall-republic/caesar-the-king.php Though someone already made the change.

44 BC should be 710 AUC (not 709) according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_urbe_condita  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.143.36.158 (talk) 03:51, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Which stab killed Caesar?
I heard somewhere that of the 23 stab wounds that Caesar had, only one was fatal and that was Brutus'. Can anyone confirm this? It was the second one, in his chest. --Must WIN 01:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I very, very much doubt this.22:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.131.228 (talk)
 * According to Mr Shakespeare, "They stab Caesar, Casca first, Brutus last". Which is odd, coz I thought Cassius did the first blow.  And Brutus being last doesn't necessarily imply last out of two.--TimothyJacobson (talk) 11:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hygiene being what it was in the day, any stab wound would have been ultimately fatal. On the other hand, not every stab would is immediately fatal; a stab in the heart or one that severs the aorta would cause the victim to collapse immediately and lose consciousness soon thereafter. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:928:3CD0:C613:C860 (talk) 15:34, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Absolute rubbish. Many wounded ancients recovered and lived to ripe old ages. HammerFilmFan (talk) 06:54, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Project Chanology
The next protest is on this date. Explains the vandalism.--Oreichalcos (talk) 14:27, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Stripping off topic content
It is the Ides of March, people, and I came to this article expecting an article about the Ides of March. Somehow, it has turned into a second Assassination of Julius Caesar article. I have removed most of the assassination content except that which relates to the Ides of March, and also removed the Merge template which has been sitting on this article since last May.... LAST MAY! Ach! GreyWyvern 14:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Cleopatra?
In the motion picture Cleopatra starring Elizabeth Taylor and Rex Harrison as Ceaser, she was visiting at the time of the assasination. Is there any truth that Cleopatra was indeed in Rome when this event occurred? Also her sooth-sayer/oracle warned her of this, after a night of storms.

China
Did China also have "ides" or what it has to do with roman ides of March? Looks like out of context. --78.61.94.98 01:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

"Displaced"?
The term had real meaning only in the traditional Roman calendar, which was displaced by the Julian calendar in 46 BC; however, it was still used in a colloquial sense for centuries afterwards to denote the middle of the month. Is this correct? I was under the impression that the Romans continued to count dates from the Nones, Ides, and Kalends after the Julian reform. Indeed, the leap day was defined as simply doubling the sixth day before the Kalends of March. I have therefore removed that line Nik42 18:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

"Appearances"?
Why in the world is this section called "Appearances"? That makes no sense. Something like "Significant Historical Events" would be closer to the mark. Is "Appearances" frequently used for articles on dates? It seems most if not all (including March 15) have this breakdown:

-   * 1 Events -   * 2 Births -   * 3 Deaths -   * 4 Holidays and observances -   * 5 External links

Seems to me the Ides of March should match that. My personal preference would just be the simple "Events", although I admit there is room for discussion. But "Appearances" has to go. Thmazing (talk) 02:45, 15 March 2008 (UTC)Thmazing

Romeo and Juliet
Under appearance, you have stated that Romeo and Juliet were married on the Ides of March. However, according to Shakespeare's play, it is August. In Act One, when the nurse and Lady Capulet discuss how old Juliet is the nurse states, "She's not fourteen. How long is it now to Lammastide?" Lady Capulet replies, "A fortnight and odd days." (Fortnight is two weeks) The side notes explain that "Lammastide is a relious feast day on August 1 and the day after Juliet's briday.  The feast day is now a little more than two weeks. (a fortnight)" (McDougal Littel Language and Literature 1994 Teacher's Edition).

In addition, in Act Three, Benvolio tries to urge Mercutio to leave the town square since "The day is hot, the Capulets abroad, and if we meet, we shall not scape a brawl" Again McDougal Littel sidenotes explain that the words can be explained that "It is hot summer day in August".

I have not found a reference that it is a full moon anywhere; however, if it is July 15 that would make more sense that it is the ides of July if August 1 is in two weeks. However, it is NOT the ides of March. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.176.95.9 (talk) 16:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Parker Posey
In the main article, there is a line which says:
 * In the film The House of Yes, Parker Posey's character goes by the name Jackie-O ever since she attended an Ides of March party dressed as the former first lady

Although this is unsourced and I have never seen (or heard of the film), I shall change this line to remove the Jackie-O bit, which currently seems to be the point of the line, even though nothing today with the Ides of March--TimothyJacobson (talk) 11:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Done --TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Cleaned up a lot of the lists
Too much stuff was being added to this article which only passively referenced the Ides of March. Bands mentioning it in their lyrics? People in film happening to die on March 15th? Used as a couple lines of dialogue in a tv show? These uses aren't notable. Unless the phrase IoM is integral to the work being referenced, it really should not be included in any lists here; doing otherwise would make all of the lists impossible to complete, as well as making the article unnecessarily lengthy. GreyWyvern (talk) 17:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Please redirect the Ares Mythology (no page yet) to the existing page on Ares: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares

Thanks, sorry if this is in the wrong place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.66.159.70 (talk) 05:19, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Redirected to Roman Mars (as before) Dedekmraz (talk) 19:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Usage in modern popular culture
Please don't add references here unless the phrase "Ides of March" is integral to the work in question; like if it's the title, or the main theme of the work. If it was just mentioned in the dialogue, or lyrics, or visible in a scene or two, then it is likely not notable enough for inclusion. I'm just remarking on this because if we include every reference to the Ides of March, this list is going to fill up with stuff that adds very little to the article itself. GreyWyvern (talk) 15:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Marked for Copyediting
This article is a mess, grammatically and in Wiki structure. Marked for a copyeditor's attention. Parasane (talk) 16:38, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the false information about Caesar being murerd in the forum. (Note the pic: It's Caesar being murdered in the Curia of the Theatre of Pompey.--Amadscientist (talk) 23:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

March 13?
The anonymous IP 65.190.132.195 on 03:41, 3 March 2010 added that "Ides of March" originally referred to March 13. A quick Googling turned up nothing to support that. Is there any evidence for that claim? --Mr. Billion (talk) 06:08, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

March 15 1993
Okay so i did some research on the full moon subject, and on March 15, 1993 there was no full more, nor was it on the fourteenth. Actually it was on the sixth. So the question here is, how many more "ides" have not had a full moon, and if this happens then shouldn't the fact about the full moon be removed from the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Death-n-l (talk • contribs) 23:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Czar Nicholas II
The Czar of Russia abdicated on the ides of march and he alos abdicated for his son the same day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.252.52.23 (talk) 03:30, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * True enough! This is listed on the Wikipedia page March 15, which is where these things would ordinarily go (each date page lists important births, deaths, and other events that happen on that day). Narsil (talk) 23:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Literal Meaning - Common Farming Phrase
I believe the phrase "beware the Ides of March" was already in common use in the farming community way before Shakespeare or even Julius Ceasar. The translation I learned was that "Ides" is the last part or tail end of something.

A rule of Farming is to plant as soon as there is no threat of frost...in most Northern Hemisphere areas such as Rome was located that means after February. But, there is a risk that a storm will arrive at the end of March; hench, the phrase used by farmers. In fact, March storms can be the worst of the season but it rarely includes sub-zero weather so most farmers will go ahead and plant at the beginning of March and keep watch until after the end of March when they can finally relax when the Ides of March have passed.

So, when Shakespeare used it in his play he meant that danger still lurks even when you think things are safe. I think this is a case where the use of a common phrase for a single event has caused the loss of the original meaning. However, I cannot locate a reference source for the farming usage which is why I'm posting it in the discussion instead of the article. Hopefully someone in the farming community can elaborate. It may even be possible that no written source is available seeing as how most ancient farming knowledge was passed down verbally. If there is no objection after given time for others to read this...I will include a section in the article for the original usage of conveying the planting knowledge concerning the threat of storms in March. Rockn-Roll (talk) 15:01, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The English phrase "beware the Ides of March" would not predate Julius Caesar. However, it is true that halfway into March it is tempting that the worst of the spring storms are over when in fact the worst is still to come ("Maart roert z'n staart" is what the Dutch farmers say). It is possible that the allusion was gang-pressed into this meaning, first in jest and later as a standing expression. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:928:3CD0:C613:C860 (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Full Moon?
What evidence is there that the Ides refers to the full moon? Is there a reliable source for this? As far as I know the word is of obscure origin. It's probably Etruscan, and that language is pretty mysterious. Metrodorus (talk) 16:57, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Further thoughts. The word Ides itself is of obscure origin: Here's what the Oxford English Dictionary says about the English word:


 * Etymology: < classical Latin Īdūs, feminine plural noun ( < the same Italic base as Oscan eiduis (dative/ablative plural), further etymology unknown (perhaps an Etruscan loanword)); subsequently reinforced by its reflex Anglo-Norman and Middle French ides, Middle French ydes (French ides) (c1119 in Anglo-Norman; in Anglo-Norman and Old French also in singular ide). Compare Italian idi, plural noun (14th cent.).


 * However, I think there may be an argument for the Ides being the day of the full moon generally. If the month begins with a new moon and ends with a new moon (the time when the moon is not illuminated by the Sun at all, the opposite of the full moon), logically, the Ides will occur at the time of the full moon. I have books on the Roman Calendar. I'll look this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrundin (talk • contribs) 15:08, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Metrodorus (talk) 15:08, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Removing "Popular Culture" section
I'm removing the "In Popular Culture" section; in my opinion, it counts as a trivia section per WP:TRIV. The noteworthy items in the list are already linked from Ides of March (disambiguation), which is linked at the top of the article; they don't need to be linked again here. Narsil (talk) 13:33, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I also replaced the "Modern Observances" section with a toplink to the March 15 section, which seems more appropriate. Many of the modern observances are barely if at all connected with the Roman calendar and/or assassination of Caesar; the appropriate place for them to be listed would be on the March 15 page. Narsil (talk) 18:51, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Death of Julius Caesar
The Ides of March was the 15th day of the Roman month Martius, and while Julius Caesar did die on the 15th of that month, the date does not correspond exactly to modern dating. Wikipedia used to mark the anniversary of his death as being the 14th of March, but no longer does. It's a minor quibble, but I thought it should be pointed out. I actually don't know whether Wikipedia policy dictates using the modern calendar or the contemporary calendar for dating historical events before Gregorian reform, etc. I wanted to point out the issue on Julius Caesar's page also, but the discussion page is blocked. If it's worth correcting on the Ides of March page, I reckon it also ought to be changed on Julius Caesar's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.73.88.102 (talk) 21:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Every year on the ides of march people are bringing flowers to the grave of Caesar en there are (little) celebrations and speeches. Should it be an improvement to incorperate some sentences about this in the article? See for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__uvRj_0r8k&feature=related — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.129.19.16 (talk) 12:34, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

How exactly did the Romans understand their calendar?
The section "ides" reads: "The Romans did not number days of a month sequentially from the first through the last day. Instead, they counted back from three fixed points of the month: the Nones (5th or 7th, depending on the length of the month), the Ides (13th or 15th), and the Kalends (1st) of the following month. The Ides occurred near the midpoint, on the 13th for most months, but on the 15th for March, May, July, and October. The Ides were supposed to be determined by the full moon, reflecting the lunar origin of the Roman calendar. On the earliest calendar, the Ides of March would have been the first full moon of the new year."

I do not understand this. What exactly does "counting back" mean? Does it mean that you identify today's date by describing it in terms of its distance from the Nones, the Ides, or the Kalends? Since today is March 11th, they would NOT say, "today is the 11th" but instead, "It is four days before the ides of March"? But even if that is the case, clearly they could not say, "today is the nones of March" by counting backwards from the Ides or the Kalends—they can only have identified the 5th day of the month by counting forward from the first. It would be helpful to know if, on March 11th, the Romans said things like, "I'll see you two days from now" or if they said "I'll see you two days before the ides." But what about references to the past? Do they refer to March the 3rd as "eight days ago" or "two days before the nones of March"?

˜˜˜˜Wordwright — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wordwright (talk • contribs) 17:04, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, this section is very unclear Alistoriv (talk) 15:31, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Repayment of Debts
The Ides of March were also a traditional date for the repayment of debts in the Roman Calendar, but I can only find one source for this. ″In Roman times the Ides of March was mostly notable as a deadline for settling debts.″ Metabraz (talk) 09:26, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

The 74th day of the year
If the Ides of March is the 74th day of the year, then shouldn't the Ides of March be March 14 in leap years? BlaiseEmby (talk) 15:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Actually, it makes no sense to designate the Ides of March by counting that way. That isn't how the Ides of a month was determined. It also assumes that there was a single Roman calendar, and that the new year was invariably on January 1, just like ours, in all periods. But see Martius (month) and September (Roman month) for some reasons not to impose concepts from the Gregorian calendar. The Julian calendar itself was a newfangled thing introduced to Rome after several centuries of Roman timekeeping. Cynwolfe (talk) 04:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)