Talk:Idiopathic disease/Archive 1

Unknown
"Unknown"--there is your great 2¢ word. --Doc Mike 23:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Could anyone link to an explanation of "two-dollar word" ? The page linked to just reiterates the point the WP article makes (I clicked the link expecting an explanation of the term, but all I got was somebody else calling it a "two-dollar word"), and is also linked to twice in the same article. Evilweevil 02:14, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I fixed the problem by removing the "$2 term". Idiopathic has a precise and useful meaning and snide remarks simply mislead the reader. $2 term suggests that the word is used by doctors primarily to pretend to knowledge they do not have by use of Greek words that conceal their ignorance, thus justifying a large $2 fee (perhaps the term was coined a few years ago). A similar sort of joke goes like this: Patient: "I have a headache. What do you think is causing it?" Doctor: "You have cephalalgia. You have to expect headache with that." The point of course is that cephalalgia is simply headache in Greek. It's easy to caricature medical jargon that way, but pretty lowbrow humor. I am saving the reputation of whomever put it in there because it suggests that large words make them defensive. You're welcome. alteripse 03:34, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That was me.. After reading the comments and gaining more experience on Wikipedia, I accept the criticism that it is inappropriate for Wikipedia, though I will personally always refer to it as a $2 word. : ) Tarek 05:34, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC) Glad you are not offended. alteripse 12:47, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Endemic or epidemic?
I have observed very frequent signs of users affected by idiopathic vandalism.
 * Not to mention idiopathic spontaneity. :) &mdash;  Rickyrab | Talk 05:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggest name change
Is this article about the word 'idiopathic' itself, or about the concept? Wikipedia is not a dictionary but an encyclopedia. We should move the content to Wiktionary or rename it 'idiopathicity'.202.124.81.222 11:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. 'idiopathicity' is currently a Googlewhackblatt. Not a good idea for an article title. This article is currently longer than any dictionary definition would be. It has scope for expansion to include perhaps a list of idiopathic diseases (or percentages of idiopathic cases within a disease definition). I note that there are currently four other language versions of this article and that it has been in existance for more than two years.

I'd like this article (and the Wiktionary definition) to focus more on its "a disorder unto itself" definition and not on the "unknown cause" definition, which IMO is a result of slightly careless usage.

Colin°Talk 14:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't take this the wrong way, but anyone who is contemplating adding a "list of idiopathic disease" doesn't understand the whole point of the article: any condition can be described as idiopathic when a causal process cannot be identified. It makes no sense to simply list all the signs, symptoms, diseases you know for which we cannot always explain an underlying cause. alteripse 19:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

You make an interesting point. I think this is one of these awkward words that get used but are hard to pin down. I certainly wasn't proposing a comprehensive list - that would be endless/pointless as you say. I thought it might be useful to have a short set of common conditions where a good proportion of cases are (currently) described as idiopathic. It would be enlightening perhaps for folk to realise that there are many common conditions that we still have no clue about. What's more, doctors have formalised their cluelessness by defining conditions on the basis that they are idiopathic. (Look at Medline: I or the ICD-10 list of diseases).

Here's a philosophical issue: The Idiopathic Epilepsies (see this good web page) are so defined because no other condition causes them. They are suspected to often be genetic. Even if we find the gene that causes most or all Childhood Absence Epilepsy, would it still be "idiopathic" if that was the only symptom? It would still be a "disease unto itself"? Perhaps we only use the word "idiopathic" because we expect most epilepsies to be caused by a very identifiable "bad thing". Maybe (like chaos theory) we will discover that we can't possibly know all the reasons why some diseases "just happen".

Cheers, Colin°Talk 21:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Nolte sentence
Can anyone make any sense of that turgid last sentence about the German physician? 59.167.42.156 (talk) 07:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)Dave


 * Yes, I came here to say the same thing. It's quite a non sequitur, hitting that last sentence out of nowhere. The prime reason for its unreadability is, I think, a total lack of punctuation - mainly commas - making it painful to the eyes and brain. Please can someone have a go, my head still hurts. Blitterbug (talk) 23:11, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Me too. Anthony (talk) 16:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC) I emailed Nolte on 4 Jan 2010 inviting him to clarify the entry. Today, I have taken it down. Anthony (talk) 03:48, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Sporadic vs idiopathic
Is there a difference?

If YES: It would be great having an explanation

If NO: It would be a good idea to include that in the description of idiopathic.

Sporadic is the preferred term used in the area of Alzheimer's disease, while it seems like idiopathic is more used in Parkinson's disease. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.243.199.58 (talk) 13:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

The two words have nothing to do with one another. MarkBul (talk) 23:50, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Link to House's remark on Idiopathic
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0606037/quotes

I believe this is a reputable source (and as a big fan of House, I recall the episode). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.32.55.200 (talk) 10:45, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "Because of the law of thermodynamics, there is always a cause. Idiopathic means they are too stupid to know what the cause is" - classic :) 129.180.1.224 (talk) 05:05, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Let's just include the quote -- Dr. House said:


 * "Idiopathic", from ancient Greek, meaning we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it.

great quote -- i tell it to all my doctor's :) yw

btw, i have idiopathic lymphadema 99.40.67.246 (talk) 05:56, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 13:50, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Idiopathic → Idiopathy – Per naming conventions, we use the noun form not adjective form. Lead sentence will need to be tweaked. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  13:32, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Easy support - nice catch Red Slash 07:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

vast ignorance
This article relates to what medical science does not know -- an immense subject. It seems like there must be much more that would belong in this article. At the very least, although it is only reasonable for there to be a technical term, it would be appropriate to remark on the usage of such semi-obscure language, versus stating in plain English: we don't know. There are important things to say about the sometimes strained relationship between medicine and the larger society.-71.174.175.150 (talk) 15:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

epidemiology
Can somone include the epidemiology of this term? I'm having trouble finding that information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nomoretruthiness (talk • contribs) 21:29, 9 May 2015 (UTC)