Talk:Idiot (Athenian democracy)

Merge with main Idiot article?
I think the information on this page might be incorporated in the general "idiot" article, but I don't think it warrants it's own page. First of all the title is incorrect: the true subject of this article is modern (US) usage of the classical term Idiot. The part of this article that is truly about the term idiot during the Athenian democracy is just a verbatim cut and paste from the original Wikipedia-page. The rest of the article gives us a view on how that term could perhaps apply to the modern US. The only source really using the word idiot is Walter C. Parker. One source does not seem to meet the notability standards. The section does mention: American civics and social studies educators increasingly resurrect its etymological origins

and again: Modern American civics and social studies educators and politicians increasingly use this terminology

but without further sources these seem just weasely sentences.

Furthermore the categorisation and conclusion of this being a problem for America seems to be in breach of NPOV.

I think this article could be condensed and merged into the main Idiot article provided that there are more sources showing the term really is in common use.

(Terper (talk) 22:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC))

Done! Melchoir (talk) 19:05, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

pov template
This page seems to be trying to advocate a specific position: This is a problem and (what I take issue with) that it's specific to the United States. Also, it seems to wander into a semantic dispute between taxpayer/citizen at the end. 150.250.43.236 (talk) 05:20, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

This page looks like it's written by the publicist for Parker's book, which is popular in some college education departments (who view it as gospel). I recommend deletion as POV and Undue Weight.Sfcardwell (talk) 05:31, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Then propose it for deletion or initiate an Afd discussion. – ukexpat (talk) 02:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Has been there for a year. I removed it and the offending text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.129.251.17 (talk) 18:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

This is an important word.
I came to the wikipedia looking for a more substative definition of the word "idiot" than merely meaning "stupid". While I was reading, someone online once used this word with the qualifier "in the classical sense" and I have always wondered what that meant. I had an idea that an idiot in a society might be someone that cannot be trusted with the power and responsibilities of self-governance. There have been some popular movies that have emphasized the special nature of a "citizen", but not much effort (that I have seen) has been put into defining the word "idiot".

The idiot/citizen dichotomy has been around since at least Aristotle (I read "The Republic") and I am constantly struggling with the fact that it seems most Democrats and Republicans do not understand the difference between a democracy and a republic, while passionately extolling political positions. This has always seemed idiotic (in the classical sense) to me.

I believe that defining these notions is critical, particularly when one considers the de-evolution of the centrally-controlled mass-media into irrelevance, and the upsurge of individuals (online) connecting directly with other individuals, without the filter of a news organization (or government) to give them the newspeak definitions of the words they are using.

The people ought to be able to define their own words, and not have that definition given to them by someone else, particularly when "someone else" has power over them, and can warp the meanings of words to suit their purposes.

The word "idiot" has classical, historical origins (as well as the word "citizen") and I do not believe most people are aware of this. This article could serve a very useful purpose. I would like to ask that the article be refined/evolved etc... so as to present a clearly understandable and useful definition, with some history behind it, as opposed to merely serving as a dictionary and defining the word to mean "stupid".

````Jonny Quick —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonny Quick (talk • contribs) 22:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * If you have some suggestions for improving the article and some reliable sources to support them, have at it! – ukexpat (talk) 03:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)