Talk:If on a winter's night a traveler

Concerning Title
It's in lower case isn't it? Should be If on a winter's night a traveler. ZephyrAnycon 23:24, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Correct ol' Zepho ctranter
 * I noticed this as well, I fixed it in the article and I'm going to put in a request for it to be moved to the appropriate name. PFlats 04:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Very good, I'm glad this is being discussed... The rules of capitalization are intentionally ignored by the author. 147.4.157.189 (talk) 19:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Done -GTBacchus(talk) 04:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

If On a Winter& → If on a winter's night a traveler — Since the above discussion, the article seems to have been moved to a new, incorrect, title. The actual title has subsequent edits, so we can't easily move on top of the redirect, and need admin assistance. http://catalog.loc.gov/ Confirms that the lower-case title is the correct one. Please add your support/objections below, or if you're an admin, move it :) -- Quiddity (talk) 19:37, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Not expressing an opinion on the move (although, in general, I think house style trumps the typography of title pages in cases like this); but I'll note that the LoC catalogue cannot be used as a "source" for this, since it uses sentence-style capitalization for all titles. On needs to be lowercased, in any event. Deor (talk) 23:21, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops! I'd checked quite a few unreliable sources, and the majority listed all the other books with regular title-caps, but this one title with sentence-style caps; so it seems like a potentially notable variant. (Although Calvino did put all of the Italian titles in sentence-style; and from a glance through some other Italian novelists, I guess it's the standard national/language style.) The main argument is otherwise probably that the first sentence (in the Weaver translation) is:
 * "You are about to begin reading Italo Calvino's new novel, If on a winter's night a traveler. ..."
 * Any suggestions for a "reliable source" for confirming this situation? Presumably we just rely upon editor-consensus if there isn't one? The [MOS (capital letters)] sections applicable are #Mixed or non-capitalization and #Composition titles, (summarizable as: if reliably sourcable and common, use the accurate common") eg k.d. lang and is 5 for example. -- Quiddity (talk) 01:22, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you have one Calvino precedent on your side: t zero. Deor (talk) 02:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. That's the only other English title that almost always gets given in pure lowercase. (I originally read it under the other title, "Time and the Hunter", so always think of it as that...). -- Quiddity (talk) 03:11, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Neutral I'm neither for nor against the move. According to WP:PRECISION, "Articles' titles usually merely indicate the name of the topic." Along those same lines, my understanding is that the Wikipedia policy isn't to necessarily have the article title be the exact same stylization as the content. – Ker αun oςc op ia◁ galaxies  01:10, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Translator
Whose text would I be reading when reading the English translation of Calvino's book, i.e. wouldn't it make sense to name the translator(s) or current editions? Leo Umlaut (talk) 02:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

New Section - Themes
Rather than just make mention of themes in the plot summary I think we can expand this article. For example, have a comprehensive exploration of the themes and various concepts deconstructed by Calvino. And perhaps also a character section. It'll be really unconventional characterisation, for sure, but readers will appreciate it if we modelled this article on the model used in articles regarding litereary novels. Yili2943 (talk) 23:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

One L or Two L's, but not both
It is a nice image of the cover of the novel that we have in this article, however, if this image is to be used then the entire entry should be named "If on a winter's night a traveller," with two L's, as it appears on the image used. Otherwise, you should use a different book cover. Come one, people. 87.84.248.99 (talk) 11:41, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * UK editions seem to have a British-English cover but American-English text (the William Weaver Translation). Humphrey Jungle (talk) 15:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism of a Brilliant Variety?
Some devilish rogue has replaced the article's text with, I quote, "a juvenile pastiche of the book If on a winter's night a traveler, by Italo Calvino." While such dastardly deeds must not be encouraged, I believe that the new version should be preserved in some way for posterity. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.107.155.107 (talk) 00:52, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * How about a talk page link? Here you go. But it can't go in the article, sadly. -Phoenixrod (talk) 16:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The above link 404s now... I believe the text under discussion is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=If_on_a_winter%27s_night_a_traveler&direction=prev&oldid=383935943 which is a fun read. Dingolover6969 (talk) 09:40, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * That is too bad, since in many (non-Wikipedian) ways, it's a better summary :)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halavais (talk • contribs) 15:03, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Whoever actually wrote the article for this page is a fucking god. Enough said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.147.47.58 (talk • contribs) 18 September 2010

While obviously atypical, I think it's by no means inappropriate. Plus, it's starting to go viral on Facebook, which seems like it has to be a good thing.Squidwiggle (talk) 03:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I just found this through Stumble. It's not super informative, but I think it should stay the way it is for its own sake. -Banyan (talk) 03:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I just found this through stumble, as well. i must say that it has surely made me interested in the book, the way the article is written.  however, being an ad for the book is not Wikipedia's function TribeCalledQuest (talk) 03:13, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

This must be kept intact. It is a work of art, I swear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.60.24.130 (talk) 06:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

That's phenomenal. Thanks for preserving it. Relsqui (talk) 03:45, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Cimmeria (Calvino)
I have merged the text of Cimmeria (Calvino) here, based on the result of Articles_for_deletion/Cimmeria_(Calvino). Please feel free to help make the information more relevant and clear. I'm not sure what exactly to do with it, so I am simply adding it as a new section. -Phoenixrod (talk) 15:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Current Version
I gotta say, even though this version is pretty hilarious and kind of epic, it should probably be switched back to something that retains actual information. Arque (talk) 22:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)Naturada137


 * Would you mind explaining what you'd like to see instead? -Phoenixrod (talk) 00:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Chapter Titles
The article fails to note an interesting and perhaps significant point about the titles of the chapters. When the chapter titles are read in order they form a sentence or poem beginning with the first chapter which is the same as the book title If on a winters night a traveler.

If on a winter’s night a traveler, outside the town of Malbork, leaning from the steep slope, within fear of wind and vertigo, looks down in the gathering shadow, in a network of lines that enlace, in a network of lines that intersect, on a carpet of leaves illuminated by the moon, around an empty grave – What story down there awaits its end?

I don't think it is necessary to list all the chapters as I have done above, but I do think it is worth mentioning the Italo Calvino's use of the concept in writing the book.

I am not a capable writer of Wikipedia articles so I'm not not going to add this info into the article but I certainly recommend someone will do so. Two sources are listed below but perhaps others can be found without too much trouble. Sources: https://lettersrepublic.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/book-1-2-if-on-a-winters-night-a-travler/ http://www.shmoop.com/if-on-a-winters-night-a-traveler/title.html If you read my talk page entry above and think it isn't important enough or there is not enough space for adding a sentence regarding the chapter titles forming a poem or passage then consider that it was deemed important enough to state that the musician Sting entitled one of his albums If on a winter's night a traveler. Tomandzeke (talk) 03:34, 22 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Done! I was also keenly interested in seeing this incorporated. Thanks for the schmoop source to cite, by the way. Dingolover6969 (talk) 10:02, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Reverted external link addition by 109.130.161.152 of 15:26, 11 March 2021
Two problems here:

(1) per WP:EXT, links to sites outside Wikipedia should not normally be placed in the body of an article as this link is, but rather in an External links section. This problem could be corrected by adding an External links section and moving the link to it.

(2) More seriously, per WP:LINKSTOAVOID item 11 we should generally avoid providing external links to personal web pages except those written by a recognized authority (see WP:SPS and WP:USESPS for discussion of the problem). I don't think the author of the linked academic paper is yet a recognized authority on the subject of feminism or Traveler.

Thank you, Dieter.Meinertzhagen (talk) 02:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

David Mitchell
If you quote David Mitchell's "opinion" on rereading Italo Calvino's book, you should also mention that he published his book "Cloud Atlas" at the time and the basic idea is a total ripoff of "If on a Winter's Night a Traveller" []. -- 2003:E5:174A:BC4C:960:E0C6:973E:72EF (talk) 18:21, 9 August 2022 (UTC)