Talk:Iga Świątek/Archive 1

Tone issues
"Unfortunately", she lost in three sets to McNally? I don't think we should be taking sides.69.119.69.88 (talk) 18:03, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree. Changed it now. My Lord (talk) 18:38, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Ranking
What is the source of the ranking list in the infobox. The WTA site currently has her ranked 347. Is this a change due to her Wimbledon win?  Nyth 63  21:39, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

need to correct approximate pronunciation
Hi, just to make it more proper, the approximate pronounced instead of Shfee-on-teck should be written Shfyon-teck. There are two syllables there, of which the first has the written 'i' not as a vocal, but as a non-sylabic graphem to induce labialisation (see rules of Polish orthography and pronunciation). Shfee-on-teck looks bad as if it has three syllables, of which the first is EE, whilst it is wrong. No need for me to make an account to edit it – I'm just handing this to those who want to have proper version of what they put into ENG wikipedia. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.76.152.91 (talk) 16:07, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , what do you think? Is it two syllables or three? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 16:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The English-language sources write out the pronunciation as three syllables. But... Shfyon-teck seems very similar to what those sources wrote out anyway if you actually try to say it without knowing any Polish. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 16:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * There are two syllables, however, an exception can be made as Shfee-on-teck is much more memorable (and exact) for English speakers. Shfyon could be read by some as Shfah-yon. Oliszydlowski (talk) 17:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Except that the polish source given and announcers at the tournament all pronounce it with three syllables... Shvee-ON'-tek. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:30, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The source is the video of her saying her own name, not the transcription from the article. If editors who actually know Polish say it's two syllables, that supersedes anything written by an English language source written by someone who doesn't know Polish. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:50, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Google translate is also helpful: here. If you click "listen" twice, the second time is in slow-mo and the correct pronunciation is pretty clear from that. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:50, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * And her saying her own name is three syllables. You can't hear it? My whole family is Polish and they can hear it. Remember that Polish language rules apply to things not necessarily family names. Just like in English there are variations in how people say their own names no matter the spelling. Heck my family names are Krzysztowczyk and Kolodziej and Wojcik, so Swiatek is no big effort. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:16, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, didn't realize you had that background. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 13:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Of course, it is Wikipedia and sources are of primary importance, but – just for the sake of information – there are two syllables in Polish, maybe except for some rare regional dialects. It is enough to look at the IPA notation. How would you want to have three syllables in a word with two vowels? Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 22:51, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Two vowels? ą is considered a nasal vowel. And the i can be like a short y. In standard words the i is often silent but family names will vary depending on the family. Iga pronounced it with 3 syllables, or perhaps sort of a half syllable between the i and ą. Sort of a "Sv(y)-an-tek. It is not really a diphthong since there are two distinct sounds. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In Polish language, with extremely rare exceptions, "i" neither forms a separate vowel nor creates a diphtong when placed immediately before another vowel, but only softens (palatalises, to say professionally) the preceding consonant – maybe that's what you mean by "silent"? I checked the pronunciation given by miss Iga on wtatennis.com (link provided by Wolbo just below) and it's exactly what I expected. It isn't v(y), as you tried to write it down, it isn't even a palatalised v, it's actually a palatalised f, because in standard Polish language (unlike in Lesser Polish dialect) the voicing-to-voiceless shift makes it impossible to pronounce anything like v after ś (by the way, "ś" may distantly resemble English "sh", but with the tip of tongue touching the lower teeth). I think I don't have to explain that palatalised f cannot create a syllable. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 20:40, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We hear it totally differently then because she does not say sfon-tek.... not even close. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:17, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I listened to it once again and śf'on-tek (with f' denoting the palatalised f) is exactly what I hear. Of course, our (quite contrary) impressions cannot be a source for Wikipedia. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 06:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Re: Oliszydlowski, okay, I see why you wrote it that way. I don't know if I'm too concerned about the possibility of a "Shfah-yon" mispronunciation compared to all of the other ways I've heard people actually mispronounce her name. If it's really two syllables, we should write it that way. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:50, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * You can hear her pronounce her name on the WTA player page (play button next to her name).--Wolbo (talk) 08:06, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Which sounds like 3 syllables to me. And now we have someone telling me "i" is a not a vowel in Polish. Sources seem to say differently such as this and also this. How is Vietnam (three syllables) spelled in Polish? It's pronounced the same as in English but spelled Wietnam. And that's a standard place name. With personal names names it can vary greatly. Perhaps some families pronounce Świątek slightly differently... that's cool. But with Iga, her last name is sourced and said by her as three syllables. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:38, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * And now we have someone telling me "i" is a not a vowel in Polish?! Don't twist my words like that, please! Definitely, "i" is a vowel when it comes before a consonant, but when it comes before another vowel, with very rare exceptions it denotes palatalization of the previous consonant. For example bielić ("to make sth whiter") will be read as b'e-lić, with first "i" changed into palatalization and second unchanged. Similarly, Wietnam will be generally pronounced as v'et-nam; you will hear the pronunciation vy-et-nam rarely if ever. One remarkable exception is klient ("client"), read as kly-ent and not kl'ent. You have it all described in many sources, beginning with Polish phonology. Similarly, the word świątek (it's also a common word, ironically meaning "a minor or unworthy object of cult") will be generally pronounced śf'on-tek. But with Iga, her last name is sourced and said by her as three syllables – as I already mentioned, I definitely hear two syllables in the recording, accordingly to Polish language rules, and IPA notation in the article, far more trustworthy than unprofessional transliterations, also shows two syllables. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 06:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I did not mean you as far as "I" being a vowel. It was another editor who made an edit that claimed that. Vietnam I gave a Polish linguistic source for where it is three syllables. Forvo linguistic also has 3 syllables for Wietnam. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:56, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. Sorry for that misunderstanding. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure that editor based his opinion on the IPA notation in the article, which indeed doesn't allow "three-syllables" interpretation (see also Help:IPA/Polish). In that version, the lead is self-contrary with IPA showing two syllables and transliteration into English showing three, so one of them definitely needs to be changed. As for Wietnam, could you – please – remind me that "Polish linguistic source", because I somehow fail to find it in your previous posts? If you mean the Pons dictionary, I cannot find a syllable division there, there is only a recording. Thanks, Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 10:27, 15 October 2020 (UTC) PS In the previous message, I have mistakenly written about labialization instead of palatalization, which is now corrected. Sorry for the trouble.
 * It is also a pronunciation site with three syllables. Forvo Wietnam. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:41, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sadly, once again it's only a pronunciation, not a written division, and once again I clearly hear two syllables (v'et-nam) where you clearly hear three (vy-et-nam). Actually, I never realised that the syllable interpretation by listeners can differ that much. Luckily, I managed to find written sources confirming my opinion. In A Concise Polish Grammar by Feldman (PDF available online), it is explicitly written on page 18: When such a labial or velar is followed by i plus another vowel, the i only functions as a signal of palatalization and not a vowel sound. And the source complements it by saying Nie dzielimy połączeń spółgłoski, litery oznaczającej jej zmiękczenie oraz samogłoski ("We do not divide [by syllable border] the connections of a consonant, a letter denoting its palatalization and a vowel"). It definitely means that the only correct syllabizations are Świą-tek, Wiet-nam (and not Świ-ą-tek, Wi-et-nam). I hope that now I finally managed to explain all the intricacies. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 19:16, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The problem is this an English encyclopedia. The Polish spoken version of Wietnam vs English Vietnam is the same. They sound identical. In English, Vietnam is usually three syllables, Vietnamese is usually four syllables. The way Iga says her own name sounds distinctly like three syllables to me. The US Open agrees. You think that with Martina Navratilova that every family whose last name is Navratilova says it the same way? Not a chance. The linguistic police don't go up to those families and tell them "hey, your saying your own name wrong." Or maybe they do. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:10, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No, not that bad with freedom in Poland yet. The rest of answer below, in order not to split the discussion into two threads. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 08:34, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I have found these songs on YouTube especially for you! 1. Playboys – Świątek Piątek (Makarena) Ma-ka-re-na ma-ka-re-na świą-tek pią-tek czy nie-dzie-la Ma-ka-re-na ma-ka-re-na ca-łą noc Ma-ka-re-na ma-ka-re-na Baś-ka Aś-ka czy E-we-la Ma-ka-re-na ma-ka-re-na te-go chcą (Full text) 2. Kazimierz Grześkowiak – Salonowy świątek Rzekła tego pana żona: Świątka mamy do salona --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:34, 15 October 2020 (UTC) — No, she doesn not. No, it has not been. You are the only one here who hears three syllables in her last name. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:08, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi everyone. I've just noticed this discussion. (Sorry, I didn't see it because I didn't have the page on my watchlist.) It's definitely two syllables, and the approximate pronunciation is "Shfyon-tek" and not "Shfee-on-tek". And yes, as has already pointed out, the "i" in "Świątek" is not even pronounced, it simply palatalizes the preceeding consonant. I've already corrected the IPA transcription: . Wiktionary confirms this: światek, Świątek. --Moscow Connection (talk) 15:03, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It is not definitely two syllables. Obviously there is an opinion difference about what is coming from her own mouth. Some hear three and some hear two syllables. The US Open release on this subject says it is three syllables... Shvee-On-tek. We are going to need sources that actually contradict this, not just a spelling guide. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:57, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Usopen.org says that indeed, but it gives an amateur transliteration which cannot stand its ground against linguistic sources. For a lengthier explanation with such sources, check what I have written above. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 19:25, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I hope this will help with counting the syllables in "świątek"...
 * It doesn't help for Iga... she pronounces her own name with 3 syllables and it has been confirmed by the WTA. You think all the Krzysztowczyk's in my family say it the same way? Families put different spins on the exact same spelling. Her's is very clear to me and the US Open. Do you have another source where she says it's pronounced differently? Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:10, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "She pronounces her own name with 3 syllables and it has been confirmed by the WTA. "
 * I haven't seen that. I only see two of you who say differently. Look, the amount of time I've spent on this is far more than my actual caring about it. You can leave it blank and simply link to her WTA profile for those who want to pronounce it correctly... they can hear it from her own lips. We have a US Open biography that talked with her and then broke it down to Shvee-On-tek. We have multiple sources such as CBC Sports, SportsGeek, The Gist, ESPN, etc... doing the same. To include your version you will need other major English sources that breaks it down as Shfyon-teck. You can't just plop it in with no source or just a linguistic book as backup. People's names vary. Fyunck(click) (talk) 03:54, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I think you are the only one advocating for three syllables. Oliszydlowski, Marcowy Człowiek, Moscow Connection, plus the editor who started this discussion all say it is two (and I also support what they are saying). The slow-mo pronunciation that the WTA provides on Iga's profile is probably the clearest indicator of that. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:41, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We disagree on what the WTA slo-mo is saying, but that's ok. That can be linked to no problem. However the multitude of written sources say three syllables also. To put the two syllable item in the article you're going to need sources that tell us she uses two syllables. I haven't seen that yet. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That "multitude of written sources" copies the same information, probably stemming from one unprofessional transliteration. It cannot outweigh linguistic sources which I have provided to prove that this word – in standard Polish – is uniformly divided into two syllables. Regional differences of pronunciation in Polish are substantial, but much smaller than in English. I also hear two syllables on the WTA website (you know, miss Iga graduated from high school in left-bank Warsaw, so she speaks as standard Polish as possible). Nevertheless, we cannot write a transliteration "as it seems nice to us", without a linguistic source it could be very imprecise. Personally, I would probably write shf'on-teck, but luckily we have the "no own research" rule. Therefore, I think that I'm fine with leaving only IPA. Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 08:34, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I also have no issue with only the IPA since it links to the Help:IPA/Polish article. And there is a link to her saying her own name. I only have an issue with an unsourced English version of her name. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:24, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey, just wanted to weigh in since I am Russian, and I assume that you can agree with me that, in Russian, the word святой (sviatoj) has two syllables. I can then tell you, as a native Russian speaker, that Iga's pronunciation of "wi" is identical to the pronunciation of в (v) in the word святой (sviatoj). Fair enough? Maxipups Mamsipupsovich (talk) 11:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Side note: The Polish way to say Wozniacki has the same issue, right? (video here) The "nia" is really an "nya" and it would be pronounced as, which is three syllables, not four. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:16, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That's only partially true. I would ALWAYS call it four syllables and obviously others would not. But it is certainly not pronounced "skah." It is ski. She is saying that in Polish her name would have been changed to Wozniacka and pronounced as you say. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, case of Wozniacki is even more obvious: "ni" makes here for a perfectly normal voiced alveolo-palatal nasal consonant, as described in Polish phonology, and creating a syllable out of that consonant is purebrand impossible. The original, Polish version of this surname would be Woźniacka. It's a Slavic and Baltic speciality to have differences between male and female versions of some surnames; it tends to cause a bit of a culture shock, but one can eventually get used to it. The Czech language takes it furthest, being ridiculed for that even by other Slavs, because – for them – every surname, even a foreign one, has to be deformed to indicate that its user is female. Serena Williamsova! The world would be dull and grey without cultural differences, wouldn't it? Marcowy Człowiek (talk) 22:40, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

'Youngest since' fun enumeration in the lead-in
Świątek is exactly 11th youngest Grand Slam women singles winner. French Open's: 4th only. Considering both sexes: 17th, French Open's: 8th. And all this counting firsts only, not titles by age won – as the sport's aficionados perfectly know. Then, this 'youngest since' enumeration is rather misleading for an average reader. P.S. Had additional 1 min for this 3-times 'High-importance article', for total of 4 interests. Youngest, 2-nd youngest (maybe even 3-rd); youngest in 50 years (maybe even youngest in 30 years). This is notable. Decade in which title was won is non-a-factor for this kind of results. Jgwikid (talk) 08:52, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ Way too trivial Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:24, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Ranking related to Barty's abrupt retirement
I noticed that changes (which have since been reverted) have already occurred stating Iga to have gained the #1 Ranking upon Barty's unexpected retirement from the sport on March 23rd; this is premature, for at least a couple of reasons which are worth noting.

- First, I don't believe that Barty's presence within the rankings will be removed until the next rankings change... which usually occurs every Monday, but in the case of major two week tournaments (the Grand Slams, and tourneys like Indian Wells, which just ended, and Miami, which has just begun play) taking place on the Monday immediately following their conclusions... which, in this case, will fall on Monday, April 4th. I'm strongly confident that at the very least Barty won't be dropped from the rankings until that date... and possibly may still remain within them even when that date arrives.

- And second, even if Barty is dropped from the rankings, Iga's ascention to the #1 spot isn't an absolute mathematical certainty; as it stands right now, at the time I'm typing this, if Iga were to lose her first match, and Badosa won the tournament, Badosa would surpass her in points, 5755 to 5721. There is no-one else who could potentially be in that #1 ranking spot on April 4th other than Ash, Iga, or Paula. If Iga does win her first match at Miami, though, it will definitely either be her or Ash who'll occupy the #1 spot as of that date depending upon whether or not the WTA drops Barty from the rankings then.

I just wanted to get this information put in here as a knowledge resource, as I suspect that we'll be battling a number of attempts to change this page to her being noted as having achieved the #1 ranking prematurely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AtypicalMale (talk • contribs) 07:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Here is a new article which references the points I made above; it's not even known at this point whether (or not) Barty has requested that she be removed from the rankings in conjunction with her retirement.
 * https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/5-players-can-claim-world-no-1-spot-following-ashleigh-barty-s-retirement-ft-iga-swiatek-paula-badosa
 * I wonder whether this article should be locked, for at least a short time, given the quantity of ill-informed "#1 Ranking" changes that we might perhaps anticipate it receiving. AtypicalMale (talk) 10:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * When this happened with Justine Henin she requested her ranking be immediately removed. When Maureen Connelly or Helen Wills retired No. 1 there were not weekly rankings so again no issue. We need to wait till next Monday to find out officially. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It all depends upon whether or not Barty requests that she be removed from the rankings; we'll definitely know whether that's the case when the rankings are next released on Monday, April 4th.
 * I know of a couple of recent examples for each of the two possibilities. For Bertens and Konta, each of whom retired in the latter part of last year, they were gone from the rankings in the next instance when they were released immediately following their retirement announcements.  Conversely, though, Barbora Strýcová officially retired in early May of last year, but was still ranked as of February 21st, just a few weeks ago; she's dropped enough points since then such that she's fallen out of the Top 1000, and (I believe) completely out of the rankings.  And, Shuai Peng announced her retirement (about which there is real uncertainty, as the Chinese government very well may have coerced her into making that statement) but is still ranked, at around 375 as of the time of this writing.
 * Unless the WTA makes an announcement about it beforehand, we'll have to wait 'til April 4th to see whether Barty remains within the rankings. AtypicalMale (talk) 21:34, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The situation has now received clarity; Barty has requested of the WTA that she be removed from the rankings with their next update, which will occur on Monday, April 4th.
 * - If Iga loses her first match in Miami, and Badosa wins the tournament, Badosa will achieve the #1 ranking.
 * - Otherwise, Świątek will achieve the #1 ranking.
 * The outcome could be known as early as Friday, when Iga plays her first match.
 * The odds are obviously pretty strongly in Iga's favor that she'll be the new #1 ranked player in the WTA come April 4th.
 * https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/news-ashleigh-barty-removed-wta-rankings-next-week-iga-swiatek-paula-badosa-shot-becoming-world-no-1-miami AtypicalMale (talk) 06:49, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * But even if Swiatek wins on Friday, she will not attain the No. 1 ranking until April 4. We would not update the infobox until that time though it could be mentioned in the article that she will gain that ranking after the tournament. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:21, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Correct; I was simply noting that, should Iga win on Friday, it will be known with absolute certainty that she'll become the #1 player on April 4th. AtypicalMale (talk) 07:37, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If she's still playing tennis. If she retires or gets hit by a a cement mixer all bets are off. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:01, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

She is no 1
Halo Wikipedia, She is now number 1. Why are you so slow in changing it? Ash Barty has resigned from tennis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.94.203 (talk) 23:46, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not official until the WTA lists it as official, which will be Monday April 4. Heck Swiatek could retire on Friday and someone else would be No. 1. That's why we wait and don't post-date. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:00, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2022
Change "Iga Świątek was born on 31 May 2001 in Warsaw to Dorota and Tomasz Świątek and named after an international supermarket chain." to "Iga Świątek was born on 31 May 2001 in Warsaw to Dorota and Tomasz Świątek."

The "named after an international supermarket chain." claim is false and either a prank, or cheap attempt to promote the supermarket chain. In fact Iga is a regular, if rare Polish name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iga JasmineMoss (talk) 01:56, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:30, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Longest streak this century
I made two edits already to this false information - Iga's 33 winstreak is the second longest in this century - someone keeps editing it back to say it is 3rd longest behind Venus and Serena even though Venus' streak was in year 2000 which is by all measures still 20th century 185.21.151.95 (talk) 09:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That is absolutely true. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:27, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Timóteo .99566 cbxzkt Ygjksra 88 45.169.218.116 (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2023 (UTC)