Talk:Iga ikki

Article name
continuing my concern regarding the name of the article. since i think Iga-Ikki arent proper name to describe a political entity, as Ikki means "rebellion", comparable with Ikkō-ikki, Saika Ikki, or Kaga ikki, which operates independently beyond the established imperial/shogunate. lets take another example about some rebellions during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's rule. the Kunohe rebellion were also dubbed as Kunohe-Ikki in Japanese.

Meanwhile, the Kōka and Iga confederation after the Tokugawa's rule in Iga province were coexisted under the Shogunate governance.

So i propose this article should be renamed as Iga-Shugo, or Iga confederation or simply Iga Republic instead. Ahendra (talk) 07:39, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Per WP:TITLE, titles should be based on what reliable sources call the subject. Can you supply evidence to support your proposed title change? Merytat3n (talk) 21:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I second Merytat3n's point. It's called an ikki in reliable sources, and indeed, the three other examples you gave all were political entities, operating de-facto independently.--3family6 (Talk to me &#124; See what I have done ) 00:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)--3family6 (Talk to me  &#124; See what I have done ) 00:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Let's try to get a general feel for which term is the most common : ) Googling "iga ikki" (inside quotation marks) returned 9360 results; googling "iga republic" returned 1820 results; googling "iga confederacy" returned 8 results.


 * If we search Google Books, "iga ikki" returns 98 results, the top results of which are Ferejohn & McCall Rosenbluth (2010) War and State Building in Medieval Japan, Turnbull (2017) Ninja: Unmasking the Myth, Turnbull (2011) Warriors of Medieval Japan, and Man (2013) Ninja. "iga republic" returns 9 results, the top result being Ferejohn & McCall Rosenbluth (2010) War and State Building in Medieval Japan again. "iga confederacy" returns one result: Turnbull (2017) Ninja: Unmasking the Myth.


 * Moving over to Google Scholar, "Iga ikki" gets us 16 results, "Iga republic" gets us 1, as does "Iga confederacy".


 * To me, it seems that this article already uses the name most commonly used in the relevant literature; the others are used but not as frequently and they are listed as alternatives in the first line of the article. Merytat3n (talk) 01:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Governance under Tokugawa shogunate
Another issue i think it need to be addressed is regarding this confederation's relationship with the Shogunate. it stated there the Iga province jurisdictions seems carved into new provinces by the Shogunate between Tōdō Takatora, Ii Naomasa, and Hattori Hanzō.

how do we approach the confederation government body which seems overlap with under those three governors? did it means the Iga confederation were like a legislative body which under the rule of those three? Ahendra (talk) 09:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The confederation ceased to exist. Ninja continued operating, but Iga as an effectively independent or discrete political entity was destroyed by Nobunaga.--3family6 (Talk to me &#124; See what I have done ) 00:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * for me personally, "Confederation" or "clan confederation" seems good term.
 * beside, its already mentioned in the article that its government has some democratic element with each Iga clan has representative on the council Ahendra (talk) 06:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)