Talk:Iggy Pop/Archive 18

Infobox genres
The instructions for the infobox parameter "genre" say to aim for generality and to have two to four genres listed.

This biography has too many genres, and some are too specific. Let's decide what ones to put in the infobox based on the reliable sources, fairly balancing all of the sources. Any other genres, and a fuller description of all the relevant genres, can certainly be retained in the article body.

After looking at the sources, I think we should have the following genres in the infobox: Punk rock, rock music, blues. I think that hard rock and rock'n'roll should be represented by the larger genre of "rock". I don't think garage rock is prevalent enough in the sources. I am not seeing very much glam rock description, just a few observers. Same with new wave and pop standards. The weak part of "blues" is that Pop dipped into that scene for a few years but didn't make a big splash. Instead he learned from it and folded that experience into his later work. But he fronted a notable blues band. The argument against "jazz" is that nobody describes the Préliminaires album as straight-up jazz; instead it has jazz influences. On the other hand, the Stooges incorporated a jazz saxophonist. But nobody describes Pop as a jazz singer; only the 2009 album has jazz trappings. Binksternet (talk) 14:23, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Sourced genres
Feel free to add more sources and quotes. Binksternet (talk) 06:04, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Punk rock:
 * Iggy Pop: 'I don't like punk' – Singer says being hailed as godfather of movement gets 'tedious'. NME.
 * Iggy Pop: how he went from teen punk to BBC lecturer. The Guardian
 * Iggy Pop was a punk before punk was invented but now the master revivalist is set to take a regular BBC Radio 6Music slot. The Independent. "The Stooges were a fundamental cornerstone of punk." — Mark Ellen.
 * Iggy Pop. Rolling Stone biography. "...hailed as seminal punk a decade later..."
 * Iggy Pop. Allmusic biography. "...godfather of punk." "Raw Power... another punk classic." "...particularly in the U.K., where Pop was looked upon as an icon by the burgeoning punk rock movement."
 * Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk, by Legs McNeil. Pop's career is described in great detail.
 * Iggy Pop: Open Up and Bleed, by Paul Trynka. Page 94: "Later, [The Stooges] would be revered as an early punk classic."
 * Jazz:
 * Iggy Pop: how he went from teen punk to BBC lecturer. The Guardian. "jazz-inflected" album Préliminaires in 2009, plus 2012's Aprés.
 * Iggy Pop. Rolling Stone biography. "...the quieter, electronic- and jazz-informed Préliminaires..."
 * Iggy Pop. Allmusic biography. "Preliminaires... taking his inspiration from jazz music."
 * Blues:
 * Iggy Pop was a punk before punk was invented but now the master revivalist is set to take a regular BBC Radio 6Music slot. The Independent. "He played drums in high-school blues bands, including the Prime Movers and the Iguanas."
 * Iggy Pop. Allmusic biography. "Via the Rolling Stones, Osterberg discovered the blues and formed a similarly styled outfit, called the Prime Movers, upon graduating from high school in 1965. When a brief stint at the University of Michigan didn't work out, he moved to Chicago instead, where he played drums alongside the city's bluesmen."
 * Iggy Pop: Open Up and Bleed, by Paul Trynka. Pages 50–1: "The Prime Movers... their own brand of authentic blues."
 * Rock, or hard rock, or rock 'n' roll:
 * Iggy Pop was a punk before punk was invented but now the master revivalist is set to take a regular BBC Radio 6Music slot. The Independent. "There was something in Jimmy that I hadn’t seen in rock’n’roll, which was kind of a method poetry – it was an unleashing of the animalistic side of rock that you never really see." — David Bowie
 * Iggy Pop. Rolling Stone biography. "...relentless rock & roll that accompanied them, Iggy Pop prefigured both Seventies punk and Nineties grunge." "...the Stooges played raw, basic, hard rock & roll." "...1979, an album of trenchant rock." "...1996 rocked harder."
 * Iggy Pop. Allmusic biography. "His heart remained with rock & roll, however, and shortly after returning to Ann Arbor, Osterberg decided to form a rock band... the Psychedelic Stooges." "...both records [have] since become rock classics." "1988's Instinct saw Pop try his hand at hard rock/heavy metal." "2001's in-your-face rockfest Beat Em Up."
 * Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell, by Dave Thompson. Page 62: "The original incarnation of the Stooges... represents one of the great treasures of American rock'n'roll."
 * Iggy Pop: Open Up and Bleed, by Paul Trynka. Page 94: "The Stooges... album took rock music and stripped it down to its barest essentials..." "Fun House is the greatest rock 'n' roll record ever made." — Jack White of the White Stripes.
 * Garage:
 * Iggy Pop. Rolling Stone biography. "...he played drums as a teen in a local garage band, the Iguanas."
 * Gimme Danger: The Story of Iggy Pop, by Joe Ambrose. Quoting Clinton Heylin: "...the Stooges... were thus able to sustain their brand of garage rock long enough to record two of rock'n'roll's most powerful collections..."
 * Art rock
 * Lowdown: The Story of Wire: "Pre-punk art-rock heroes Brian Eno, David Bowie and Iggy Pop were furiously active through 1977..."
 * Allmusic Iggy Pop -  Blah Blah Blah album review: "...while The Idiot was made by a man creating intelligent and ambitious art rock, Blah Blah Blah is the work of a popmeister looking for hits and not afraid to sound cheesy about it."

Hatnote
Does this page really need a hatnote differentiating it from Iggy Azalea? Are readers likely to confuse the two names? — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 21:59, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Article needs to discuss his time in the Iguanas
The article says practically nothing about his role as the drummer in the garage rock band the Iguanas, while in high school. In light of the fact that the band made recordings that are collected by fans of garage rock, shouldn't this be mentioned? I'm sure that sources would not hard to find. Garagepunk66 (talk) 17:20, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Iggy Pop. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131228194914/http://www.craveonline.com/music/articles/04648031/iggy_pop_on_lil_bush_and_the_stooges.html to http://www.craveonline.com/music/articles/04648031/iggy_pop_on_lil_bush_and_the_stooges.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20141010092958/http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/entertainment/993/backtalk-with-elijah-wood.html to http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/entertainment/993/backtalk-with-elijah-wood.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 03:04, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Leg
Nothing to say about his leg? It's obvious there is something wrong with his leg. Is it since birth? Avjoska (talk) 11:34, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Birthplace
The infobox says he was born in Ann Arbor, but the Early Life section says Muskegon. Which is it? Molinari (talk) 13:22, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Muskegon, according to his bio by Joe Ambrose and other sources. It was changed in error (?) a few days ago, so I've changed it back.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Iggy Pop. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131126012410/http://gothamist.com/2011/12/13/photo_iggy_pop_in_1980s_greenwich_v.php to http://gothamist.com/2011/12/13/photo_iggy_pop_in_1980s_greenwich_v.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:46, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Health Issues/Leg
This is not referenced anywhere in the article. Probably not appropriate to labour on, but complete omission seems odd too. " I have a dislocated shoulder. I have a lot of cartilage lost in my right hip. Both knees are about to go. I have one leg about an inch and a half shorter than the other. When I was thirteen, I was run over by a big guy playing junior high football, and the right leg ended up a quarter inch shorter. By my mid-twenties, it was a half inch". Iggy Pop in Rolling Stone, April 4, 2007. The article goes on to explain further 'leg shrinkage' (?), citing cramped, economy-class flights as an aggravating factor. I'll leave it to others to decide if any of this should be referenced. Mike Galvin (talk) 12:15, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

"Godfather of Punk"?
Both sources here are American, and neither could be considered authorities on the Punk Movement. Punk was largely (if not completely) a British (mainly English) 70's phenomenon. It's most famous exponents are The Sex Pistols, The Clash, and a handful of other London bands, though Ireland gets a look in too with The Boomtown Rats and Stiff Little Fingers, as do other areas of the UK, also. Is this description of Iggy Pop justified? He is not much identified (or almost at all) with the Punk scene in the UK at its inception or thereafter. Mike Galvin (talk) 19:48, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * What you've written would certainly come as a surprise to the US-based creators of punk, including the New York Dolls, Richard Hell, Iggy Pop, and the Ramones, whom the Sex Pistols and the Clash were imitating. Perhaps you've heard of Malcolm McLaren, who managed the Dolls late in their career, returned to London, and cultivated the Pistols in their image? — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 01:45, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Of course familiar with the bands you list. I seriously doubt that The Ramones would be at the top of anyone's list of iconic punk bands. In fact I can't think of a single American band that would be, including NY Dolls. The movement almost completely defined by its connection with 70's London. There was of course a 'punk' scene in the US also, but it was very different. I don't recall many tourists to NYC in the late 70' buying postcards of punk rockers complete with mohicans as a defining image of that city, but I can remember plenty doing so in London. We can say that Iggy Pop was on the periphery of this scene, but Lust for Life/The Passenger/Louie, Louie are hardly punk songs. Calling him "The Godfather of Punk" is ridiculous. If anyone owns that crown, it's John Lydon or Joe Strummer. Mike Galvin (talk) 12:28, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a matter of who inspired and influenced whom. The Ramones released their first album -- and, if memory serves, toured Britain -- before any of the iconic British punk bands started.
 * In any event, I believe the article cites reliable sources concerning Iggy Pop being called the "Godfather of Punk". If not, it should be removed. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 14:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

That was really my original concern. Has this description been made by NME or a publication with expertise in this area, then fair enough. The Western Daily Press is a newspaper with a comparatively small circulation (14000?) here in rural south-west England. It would not be regarded as remotely in touch with metropolitan music culture. Billboard has more credibility, but also an American perspective which is really the source of the problem. I wouldn't disagree that some vague concepts of 'punk' filtered across from the states, but by the time these were been London-ized, they were unrecognisable. Nobody would seriously argue that the Ramones influenced The Clash or the Sex Pistols beyond the word 'punk' itself which was quickly retooled to represent something totally different. And it is this London scene which defines 'punk' as most people would understand it today. I'll leave it to others to decide, but I honestly feel that to describe IP as "the Godfather of Punk" is misleading to a new generation of music fans/students/researchers looking for roadsigns in this. Mike Galvin (talk) 14:32, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

why is there no information on the predatory relationships he had with minors
Other wikipedia articles cite him as having slept with several 11 and 13 year old girls and to have even recorded songs about the acts. This should be referenced in a section on his controversial behaviors. History should not be blind to these acts.

My edit regarding one of these relationships was reverted yesterday, due to being unsourced. I referenced song lyrics (which are accessible anywhere) about sex with a girl named Sable when she was 13. This aligns with articles like this one (https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/11-rock-stars-who-allegedly-slept-with-underage-girls-7980930), which mention Pop’s sexual interactions with groupie Sable Starr. Why shouldn’t these indications of statutory rape be included on the page? Jojuj (talk) 07:56, 8 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Lyrics are certainly not a reliable source - there is no way of knowing if they are fantasy (as many lyrics are, of course). I've no idea whether the Phoenix New Times is considered to be a reliable source - but in any case you'll have seen the word "allegedly" in its headline.  Beyond that, it's a question of whether or not this is significant enough to be mentioned in an encyclopedia article about Iggy Pop's life and career.  He has never faced any charges over it - whether or not he acted illegally has never been tested, and whether he acted immorally is simply a matter of opinion.  So, I don't see a need for it to be mentioned.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Stage diving
The article said "Iggy Pop was the first performer to do a stage-dive, which he started at a concert in Detroit." Sources dispute this though http://kcpr.org/2018/10/25/evolution-of-stage-diving/ says he "popularized" it. One source referred to him first doing it in Detroit and another refers to Cincinnati. I have changed the sentence to "Iggy Pop was the one of the first performers to do a stage-dive and popularized the activity.". See also: earlier discussion in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Iggy_Pop/Archive_1. FrankSier (talk) 10:06, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Iggy Pop
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Iggy Pop's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Gimme Danger": From The Idiot (album):  From Michael Erlewine:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Godfather of Punk?
The sources for this description are pretty weak, and I would question whether he has any connection at all with the punk movement. Surely bands like The Sex Pistols, The Clash, etc are more deserving of this moniker. Though a semi-punk movement existed in the US, the genre is inextricably associated with London and London bands. Hanoi Road (talk) 14:13, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of sources attesting to the fact that he was a major influence on the bands you mention.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:16, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The Cover versions subsection of the article's Legacy section notes that: "The Sex Pistols recorded the first high-profile Stooges cover, 'No Fun', in 1976. This introduced the Stooges to a new generation of audiences, particularly in the United Kingdom, where Pop was then based. Sid Vicious also regularly performed 'I Wanna Be Your Dog', 'Search and Destroy' and 'Shake Appeal (Tight Pants)' in his post-Pistols solo shows. The first two of these songs also feature on his Sid Sings album. The first album by British punk band the Damned, Damned Damned Damned, concluded with 'I Feel Alright', a cover of the Stooges' '1970' under its accepted alternate title."


 * The "godfather of punk" title is also included in this article from the New York Times. JezGrove (talk) 16:20, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


 * And I would also clarify that Godfather in this context implies that he is a precedent for what became punk, so it's accurate. If he was called the Original Punk then that would be different. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 17:09, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Is Pop still alive?
--93.106.239.226 (talk) 10:02, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes - https://iggypop.com/  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)