Talk:Ilaria Salis

Additional info
I added additional info to the article. I am open to discussion, if someone finds them offensive or poorly sourced. Greetings! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.206.11.96 (talk) 13:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah those are both poorly sourced (or making claims that the sources do not support) and POV. I have reverted your edits. Polygnotus (talk) 11:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The Guardian and the Euronews are poor sources? Hmm, Weird. I obviously reverted them.--84.206.11.96 (talk) 05:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Have you read WP:POV? And straw man fallacy? Polygnotus (talk) 06:02, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Calling people neonazis even when they are not is against the Wikipedia policy of not being libelous. I asked third party opinion.--84.206.11.96 (talk) 06:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That didn't answer my questions and is not what happened. Polygnotus (talk) 06:46, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * They were SEEN by her as neonazis. Still don't get it?--84.206.11.96 (talk) 09:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:INDENT like I asked you. Please answer my questions above. Polygnotus (talk) 09:39, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Libero Quotidiano is a right-wing tabloid and not a reliable source. Polygnotus (talk) 13:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/politica/24_giugno_27/la-lombardia-chiedera-a-ilaria-salis-di-saldare-il-debito-con-aler-deve-pagare-90-mila-euro-la-replica-non-mi-devo-difendere-da-niente-a243f951-531f-419f-94b4-30e344d91xlk.shtml
 * https://www.ilmattino.it/primopiano/politica/ilaria_salis_casa_occupata_milano_debiti_cosa_sappiamo-8166773.html
 * https://www.iltempo.it/personaggi/2024/06/07/news/ilaria-salis-casa-popolare-occupata-senaldi-conto-90mila-euro-39547936/
 * https://www.informazione.it/a/ADB16EB3-BA78-47AA-83D1-19647DD8C3C4/La-Lombardia-chiedera-a-Ilaria-Salis-di-saldare-il-debito-con-Aler-Deve-pagare-90-mila-euro-La-replica-Non-mi-devo-difendere-da-niente
 * https://www.ilmessaggero.it/en/ilaria_salis_occupations_and_debts_in_milan_s_public_housing-8166768.html
 * https://hungarytoday.hu/controversial-mep-ilaria-salis-faces-debt-scandal-with-milan-housing-company/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.206.11.96 (talk) 13:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Enough? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.206.11.96 (talk) 13:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You consider pro-Orbán sources to be WP:RELIABLE but on Wikipedia they fall under WP:BIASEDSOURCES (especially when used on articles about their enemies) and, looking at international sources, even WP:FRINGE. So while they could be useful for opinions, they are less so for facts. Note that Wikipedia is a WP:CONSENSUS-based project and that WP:CANVASSing is not allowed. Polygnotus (talk) 14:58, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

During or after
It is indeed wrong that "she was arrested during a counter-demonstration". --Norden1990 (talk) 07:29, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I changed it to "after" which is what The Guardian says (search for the word "counter"). Polygnotus (talk) 07:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Careful with rightwing Hungarian and Italian sources
Viktor Orbán is the prime minister of Hungary since 2010 and the most influential man in Hungary by far. He is similar to Silvio Berlusconi in that he and his friends control the media and are not afraid to attack those who disagree with them.

Orbán is anti-LGBT, anti-immigration, and a right-wing populist who controls the Hungarian press and the judiciary system.

Orbán loved Berlusconi and vice versa. The far right in Hungary and Italy have a shared vision and often collaborate.

Ilaria Salis was accused of violently attacking neonazis (despite being a tiny woman) after a counterdemonstration of a neo-nazi rally. She was was alleged to be "antifa" (I don't have evidence to confirm or deny that), which made her a mortal enemy of Orbán and his buddies. They threw the book at her (11 years!) and smeared her name (although it was unclear who did what because some participants in the fight were hard to identify because of masks and low quality video).

In Italy, where almost all of the press is controlled by Berlusconi's right-wing buddies Ilaria Salis also received quite a bit of negative press. (Berlusconi died in 2023)

There was a minor diplomatic incident because some (left-wing) Italian people were outraged to see Salis in chains in court. They made her MEP and she gained immunity from prosecution.

International newspapers (the reliable ones) are pretty neutral about Ilaria Salis but most Italian and Hungarian rightwing newspapers will say whatever to make her look bad.

We should base the article on sources that don't have a dog in this fight. We can use biased sources for opinions but not for facts. Polygnotus (talk) 10:32, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Todoes

 * Does she still teach? Should she be described as a teacher or as a former teacher?

Polygnotus (talk) 12:56, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Generally I've seen people continue to be referred to as teachers even after the end of their careers. The exception to that is when they are suspended by their county's professional teaching body, in which case I've seen them referred to as "suspended teacher". Does that make sense? TarnishedPathtalk 13:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yup, thanks. Polygnotus (talk) 13:24, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Polygnotus, I've just updated the infobox field occupation from teacher to politician. While she her profession is still that of a teacher, her occupation is now a politician. Tarnished<b style="color:#420000;">Path</b><b style="color:#bd4004;">talk</b> 13:53, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thank you, I completely forgot! Polygnotus (talk) 14:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)