Talk:Illmatic/Archive 1

Criticized for its brevity?
According to the critical recognition section, Illmatic was "...criticized its brevity (it contained only nine songs and one skit; unusual for a hip hop album)", Not saying that an album with 10 tracks is particularly extensive, but lots of classic rap albums aren't that legnthy either. For example, Raising Hell by Run-D.M.C. has just 12 tracks, one of which is 27 seconds long. Paid in Full by Eric B. & Rakim has seven songs, three instrumentals, and was later remastered with two songs remixed/extended. Unless someone can actually find a review saying "Geez, why is this album so short?" or something, it my be good to rethink this sentence. At least the part saying it's "unusual for a hip-hop album", since it's obviously not written in stone that a hip-hop album has to be long. 2Pac 21:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Is Illmatic truly a gangsta rap album?
This is not "gangsta rap." Gangsta rap is a term properly used only to describe west coast hip-hop. East coast hip-hop works fine as a description on its own. --b. Touch 21:46, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Is that true? I thought that there was east coast gangsta rap too. Tim Ivorson 23:40, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Some east coast rappers fit the definition (Mobb Deep, C-N-N), but they are more properly termed as East Coast hip hop artists, or East Coast rappers. "Gangsta ; whose main targets were 2Pac and Snoop Dogg. Nas doesn't fit the description of a "gangsta rapper;" while his music contains violence and profanity, it isn't to the extremities of that of that so-called "gangsta rap." Nas' music is more based upon the original principles of hip-hop music, and he (and his music, and therefore Illmatic) are more properly labeled as being east coast hip-hop, not "gangsta rap." --b. Touch 10:49, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I don't disagree about Nas, but I think I might want to describe as gangsta rap some non-west coast music which is in the west coast gangsta rap style. Tim Ivorson 13:39, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree. There are plenty of artists, mainstream or not, whose style of rap I would consider as "gangsta rap". I would place Mobb Deep as "Gangsta Rap", for example. Nas definetely would not be in that category because his music, while profane and violent at times, seems to be more about his experiences growing up as well as what he sees around him. The underlying message in many of his tracks are more positive than anything. NWA would definetely be gangsta rap for me, in fact, they seem to be the innovators of it.

Benedict Ng


 * Most definitely NOT gangster rap. --daunrealist 22:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

(*Copyrighted lyric reprint removed 3/5/06* --FuriousFreddy 17:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC))

[link to copyvio website removed]

These are lyrics from two of the best known songs from Illmatic, and they sound like gangsta rap to me.......Though not “Gangsta Rap” in a conventional sense, Illmatic incorporates several elements characteristic of the Mafioso rap: frequent references to famous crime figures (i.e. "of pain I'm like Scarface"...."and lamp like Capone") and cinematic tales of crime and drug-dealing told in first-person. That is what makes Illmatic such an abberation, since it eschews the macho posturing that we tend to associate with West Coast Gangsta Rap (see G-Funk) --chub 16:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with chubdub here--24.91.137.243 21:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

wild style
The track "Genisis," starts with a audio sample of the 1982 film Wild Style starring well known grafitti writters Lee and Pink (or Lady Pink). While Nas talks to AZ, Nas's first song is played in the background, "Live at the BBQ." Nas made another ode to Wild Style shooting his first video, "It Ain't Hard to Tell," on the same stage as the finale scene for the film. Source: Nas' (Music) Video Anthology Vol. 1, http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/BTTL_illmatic.html --Pointyfingers 17:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

producers
I labeled each track with its corresponding producer because solo hip hop artists almost always use tracks from producers other than the one executive producing their album. Even an album produced by a famous producer will often feature tracks from others or the artists themselves (Eminem’s Slim Shady LP), unless the artist/producer collaboration states otherwise (Hi-Tek and Talib Kweli’s Reflection Eternal or Blueprint and RJD2 as Soul Position). The majority of hip hop artists, however, remain solo acts that strive to gather instrumentals from one side of the industry to the other. Because of this, I don’t think the standard album infobox template is inefficient at describing the details of a hip hop album. (Perhaps each integral genre of music should have a slightly different template.)

I suggest that only the executive producer be named under producer in the album template and each track be labeled with its producer, i.e. (prd. …) or (produced by …).

Production is important. It lets you see who did what, how their music evolves and relates to other things they produced. Kanye West is a perfect example, he did talib’s “get by” mobb deep’s “throw your hands up” and used excerpts from both those previous recording to make john legends “I used to love you” and talib’s “I try.” Knowing details like that (and I think most people did) almost bridge songs to each other, and it certainly paints a portrait of kanye’s style, for those interested in this kinda shit anyway. --Pointyfingers 19:54, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Origin
How did the name Illmatic come to be? --daunrealist 22:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

It was the tagname of an incarcarated friend of Nas'. -Mittens

nihilistic?
There was an apparent contratiction in this version of the article: "Part of the reason for Illmatic's acclaim was the diversity of its subject matter that revolved around nihilistic descriptions of gang warfare, desolation, and the ravages of urban poverty. Throughout the album, Nas creates highly detailed first person narratives that deconstruct the troubling lives of inner city teenagers. For instance, on the song entitled 'One Love', Nas assumes the role of a man who writes a series of passionate letters to a friend in prison, which recount several people both men knew and the events that have occurred since the receiver's imprisonment. Furthermore, Nas celebrates life’s pleasures and achievements —acknowledging violence as a feature of his socio-economic conditions rather than the focus of his life. While certain songs such as 'N.Y. State of Mind' depict the misfortunes and perils that accompany street life, others such as 'Life's a Bitch', celebrate the plethora of life's opportunities and accomplishments:ni" How can passionate songs that "celebrates life’s pleasures" be nihilistic?TheJabberwock 03:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you are forgetting one thing. Illmatic was made from the perspective of a broke ass kid in the hood struggling to survive.   And that kid has a very nihilistic point of view. Nihilism as a philosophical position argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally believe all of the following: God doesn't exist, traditional morality is false, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no meaning, and no action is preferable to any other. What you view is really a kid trying to make sense out of a seemingly senseless world.  He is trying to find meaning in a life that to him doesn't appear to have any. Thus, he rhymes without any great emotion or feeling because he has none.  Life's a bitch and then you die.  Some songs lack strong emotions because to have a song with those strong emotions would betray what he is feeling at that time which is essentially nothing.  He mentions his friends deaths so matter of factly on Illmatic because if life has no meaning then death is an escape from a meaningless life.


 * But once you hear songs such as The World Is Yours, you witness a teenager that attempts infuse more hope in his life. He can see and experience the good aspects of life and now that life has meaning for him so does death.  Hence you can get a full range of emotion from the happiness of being rich to the sadness of losing those close to you. The song is still mostly about the fu*ked up sh*t around him:  "I need a new nigga for this black cloud to follow." The chant The World of Yours is almost being said kinda of mockingly like The World is Yours but who really wants it.  The kid is trying to convince himself that the World has some meaning to him.  The power of the song is at some point all of us probably have wondered amidst the hopelessness if The World is really ours.Subconsciously, we can all relate to that. Hence, the song is passionate, sinc it evokes emotion from the listener. But once he makes it and is showered with all the material trappings of this world, he can never find that kid again because he has too much in life to be happy and sad about. --Chubdub 14:08, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. See if you think my revision does the album justice. TheJabberwock 17:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, I believe the lyrics quoted after that paragraph are wrong. It says "The essence of adolescent leaves my body", and I'm pretty sure it should be "the essence of adolescence", but I haven't corrected it because I might be wrong, English is not my native language. So, which is it? Edesimuh 07:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right; it's been fixed. TheJabberwock 17:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Stub?
Is this article really short enough to be a stub? TheJabberwock 00:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, this is a great article. But the criteria for featured article demands that an article be comprehensive and cover every aspect of the given topic. Its not a stub, but it needs to be expanded (no one has completed the last task on the to-do list, Details on the album's recording sessions and background).


 * If anyone is willing to write a "Background"/"Origins" section, here is some material that may help you


 * http://www.exclaim.ca/index.asp?layid=22&csid=1&csid1=3163

''
 * link provides genral background for album''


 * http://home.gwu.edu/~noz/nas1.html


 * link provides quotes from producers and Nas himself, includes behind-the-scenes outlook of the recording of the album --P.O.N.Y. 12:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with PONY. Let's do this article some justice and make sure it covers every significant aspect. After all, I would hate to see someone oppose this article in the FA-nominees, on the basis that it needs to be expanded. --Cannae777 14:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Each song doesn't need its own description.....
According to the WP:ALBUM
 * "On song linkages: Don't link to a song that has no article unless you believe that the song most certainly deserves an article and/or you are willing to write it."

The songs which already have their own articles are singles. The rest of the songs weren't singles, and therefore, do not necessarily require their own articles, unless you feel their is a urgent need to do them. --P.O.N.Y. 02:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Giving each song it's own articl e is going way too far IMHO. That is not really encyclopeidc. We're really pushes the boundries of fancruft. Ted87 20:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be nice if someone did it, but I agree, it's not necessary. See The Wall, though, for an example where the individual track entries work well. TheJabberwock 21:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I was just going off of what they had done for The Beatles, which I thought was a very thorough article as they had articles for each song, even those that weren't singles. I thought it'd be interesting to have break downs of each song of one hip hop's more important albums. However, I ain't gonna add something that'll be taken down anyway so I'll chill with it. Richard Corey 18:47, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Please, feel free to add. I deeply encourage it. Any particular songs you had in mind? --Chubdub 21:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Background and recording section

 * Draft moved to main article page for editing. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 02:31, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's what I had in mind (its only a draft, so don't be mad that its of poor quality at this moment). See if you think this draft does the album justice. Are there any adjustments I should make before I insert it into the article iteself? Are these many quotes necessary? Should I convert the entire segment into a prose instead of just a series of quotes? --P.O.N.Y. 22:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Comments
Great job. Mostly you can see what I changed in my edit. I took out a couple quotes which didn't fit, and merged another with the text. I need you {P.O.N.Y.) to find the citations for those quotes. Thanks for your work. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 01:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure P.O.N.Y. 02:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Its good. But perhaps you should include pictures of the producers that were quoted? Chubdub 02:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not a bad idea. But pictures should not be a high priority at this moment, especially when we still have other issues to work out. And I do not think picutres of producers should be included, unless they are pictures of the producers from that particular time period or are directly related to the album itself (i.e a shot of Premo in the recording studio; see FU for fair use rationale). There is one particular image of Nas in a premotional video for the album Image:Nas making illmatic.jpg, and it has yet to find its source. If you feel the need to include more pictures, then I suggest that you find the source of that pictutre. But right now, we should stick to the topic at hand P.O.N.Y. 02:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough--Chubdub 03:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

It needs a lot of work in my opinion --24.91.242.154 21:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Care to specify. If not, then please do not request a clean up unless you provide a clear rationale. --199.232.104.30 15:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Quotes section?
Would it be a good idea to have a "quote section" similiar to The Wall? --Chubdub 02:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Comments

 * I'd say including the quotes in the Critical Recognition section or in other sections would be preferable. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 02:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jabberwork. I don't think a "quote section" should belong in this article, or "cultural notes" for that matter (some of which do not even relate to hip hop culture, and appear to be nothing but random information about the album). If the material in there is really pertinent, then it should be possible to include it into the rest of the article. P.O.N.Y. 02:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * According to WP:ALBUM, a Trivia-like section appears to be acceptable, as long as it is relevant to the album. And while other sections may need quotes (i.e. Critical recognition), there are other quotes from producers that do not seem appropriate for that particular section ("Critical recogniztion" requires quotes from professional reviewers, not the personal opinions of others). I'd rather put quotes such as these:


 * ''MC SERCH: If you trace hip-hop, every three or four years there's a group that breaks the mold. Nas is the new heart of what hardcore hip-hop is going to be about. Besides being the most prolific artist I've ever heard in my life, he is pound for pound, note for note, word for word the best MC I ever heard in my life.


 * FAITH NEWMAN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Nas has an old soul, you kinda get the feeling he's been around before in the way he observes life. His mind is always kind of operating at a very mystical level. The people who are the most respected producers in hip-hop have a certain sense of awe when it comes to him. I have never, in all the 15 years that I've been listening to rap, ever heard anybody express something so vividly and perfectly as Nas. He doesn't have to shout to be heard. It's so effortless. You listen to his music, you get this mental picture of where he's coming from. It's not gratuitously violent or sexist, it's just real. It's touching too.


 * “Nas—he’s one of our saviors now,” said DJ Premier. “When we did ‘N.Y. State of Mind,’ at the beginning when he says, ‘Straight out the dungeons of rap / Where fake niggas don’t make it back,’ then you hear him say, ‘I don’t know how to start this shit,’ ’cause he had just written it. He’s got the beat running in the studio, but he doesn’t know how he’s going to format how he’s going to convey it. So he’s going, ‘I don’t know how to start this shit,’ and I’m counting him in [to begin his verse]. One, two, three. And then you can hear him go, ‘Yo,’ and then he goes right into it. He didn’t know how he was gonna come in, but he just started going because we were recording. I’m actually yelling, ‘We’re recording!’ and banging on the [vocal booth] window. ‘Come on, get ready!’ You hear him start the shit: Rappers…. And then everyone in the studio was like, ‘Oh, my God,’ ’cause it was so unexpected. He was not ready. So we used that first verse. And that was when he was up and coming, his first album. So we was like, Yo, this guy is gonna be big.”


 * “A person like him only comes along once in a lifetime,” said Q-Tip after producing for Nas. “The way he comes with his lyrics and the way he hits it, it’s clearly poetry.”


 * in the "Background and recording section". The problem, however, is that that section already has a lot of quotes as it is. Thus, I think it would be more fitting to start an entirely different section devoted to quotes.--Chubdub 03:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Accolades table
Anybody know why that little box appears under "Rank" in the accolades table? TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 01:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Heavy use of blockquotes
I know this was addressed during the FAC, but it is possible (and, from an encyclopedic standpoint, preferable) to paraphrase and adapt text from large quoted blocks, rather than to copy and paste them in their entirety. --FuriousFreddy 06:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The 10th Anniversary Platinum Series
Am I the only person that has not forgotten about the re-release of "Illmatic" in 2004 that featured six extra songs that were not on the original "Illmatic". Someone needs to write an article on that second disc that featured remixes of "The World Is Yours", "Life's A Bitch", "It Ain't Hard To Tell" & "Life's A Bitch." It also features new songs "On The Real" and "Star Wars."

I agree. (Rishi B 01:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC))

Remixes
I think information should be added about the many remixes of songs from this album that came about... the World is Yours and It Ain't Hard to tell are probably the most notable.. they're part of Nas' sets nowadays. Not many people know about the Memory Lane remix either... (Rishi B 01:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC))

One Love has two notable remixes, one that came out via Nas (can't remember who produced it), another by MF Doom... The non-Doom remix is on Nas's Myspace page.

Music Videos
Although there is some talk about music video's of songs on Illmatic, there should be a full section dedicated to it. At least the section should be as complete as this

Order of content
It seems to me that, per the inverted pyramid style of writing, essential information such as the track listing should go at the top and above such a detailed history and analysis of the album. But otherwise, congratulations to everyone who worked on this article. It's nice to see some diversity among our daily featured articles. — GT 00:38, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Image/media problems

 * Image:Nas making illmatic.jpg, Image:090104.jpg, Image:Pic small 170.jpg, Image:Nas-NYStateOfMind.ogg, Image:Halftime.ogg, Image:MemoryLane.ogg, Image:Illmatic.ogg, Image:Nas2.jpg, Image:Intv.jpg, Image:114000952m.jpg, Image:4908.jpg, Image:Nas worldisyo 101b.jpg, Image:Onelove.jpg contain no fair use rationale.
 * The sound clips are longer and of higher quality than what is recommended at Music samples: less than 30 seconds (meaning 29 seconds and some change) and Q0 quality.
 * Image:090104.jpg is of such low quality that it adds little or no value to the article. It is also mistagged as promotional (images from magazine articles aren't promotional) and the source listed doesn't seem to contain the image.
 * Image:Nas2.jpg is probably mistagged as promotional (looks like a scan from the original 5-mic review) and the source listed doesn't seem to contain the image. The need to include the image at all is questionable.
 * While fair use images should be low resolution, some of them are simply too small IMO, hindering their illustrative value. Punctured Bicycle 01:16, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The sound samples are songs that incooporate themes that are explained the "The Music" section. As far as the sound samples being too long, as with any guideline, WP:Music Samples contains suggestions, not requirements. Image:090104.jpg may in fact, be mistagged (in which case it may have to be removed), but Image:Nas2.jpg was exibited in several telivision shows (they recently air a special on MTV) and ads for the album. Therefore, the image can be sourced as either promotional for the latter or "telivision clip" for the former. Chubdub 02:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * A magazine reviewing the album independently of those trying to sell the product isn't promotional. It's clear that Image:Nas2.jpg came from the original 1994 The Source magazine article ("microphone" ratings are after all one of their distinctive features).  MTV specials aren't promotional. Advertisements that reuse or (more likely) paraphrase the original Source graphic aren't really relevant. Publicity photos explains, "Publicity photos come from a very narrow range of sources, and are made available for distribution by promotional agencies." The promotional tag is simply not appropriate for this image and should probably be changed to fair use in. Punctured Bicycle 03:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Very well. Until we resolve this issue, I will mark these images under Possibly unfree imagesChubdub 03:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Influences referencing
Why are we removing requests for citations on the influences? If our only source for these influences is by interpreting the other artists' lyrics, and this connection has never been drawn by any other commentator, we are not conforming to No original research. If we are unwilling to provide secondary sources for these claims, can we at least identify what we are interpreting as a statement of influence by referencing the lyrics? Jkelly 20:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Canibus



Just Blaze and Saigon



Alchemist

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:cuRicZFvgKsJ:www.theavemagazine.com/dept/feat/feature/Oct04/Alchem02.htm+Illmatic+Alchemist&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8

Talib Kweli

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:X4PhRbYjQ1kJ:www.playbackstl.com/Current/profiles/kweli.htm+Illmatic+%22Talib+Kweli%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=49 Chubdub 15:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The World Is Yours (Remix) Video
Why is the image from "The World Is Yours (Remix)" music video in this article. It has nothing to do with Illmatic and should only be needed in The World Is Yours (Nas song) article.

What do you mean it has nothing to do with Illmatic? Its a music video for a single (remix version) that was used to promote the album? Chubdub 03:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Article For Each Song
Does anybody think we should do an article for each song like what was done for each Beatles album. (see Abbey Road)?

Influences
It says: "The cover of Bow Wow's Wanted was modeled after that of Illmatic" and it shows a picture. Yet, I don't see a striking resemblence.....

The head... the urban background... the "street" feel (of the cover that is). - Mittens

Illmatic Infobox
As per WP:ALBUMS, for an artist's debut album, the previous album section should be left blank (no en dash). According to WP:FU and WP:MUSTARD stipulations, album covers should not be used in the chronology section of an infobox, or in an artist's discography page. Additionally, Illmatic and It Was Written have the only infoboxes that I have seen so far that use album covers in said section. Therefore there is no general consensus, and the existing guidelines should remain intact. Finally, the given example in WP:ALBUMS shows that producers should be separated by commas, and that they should not have their own line. Please also see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums. --NPswimdude500 23:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Times???
How on earth do we have such a well written and organized track listing for this album, and yet the track duration is missing?????? I'm not good with the Track Listing Box so could someone who knows what they are doing add the TRACK DURATION to the track listing box? Wuthai 03:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. The total time, however, adds up to 39:44. The listed length is 39:43. Can someone clarify the correct length?--NPswimdude500 03:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Appreciate the quickness. But also, there's no need to sweat over a mere second in duration; The provided length may be rounded up and the length that is can be calculated from the given track listing (again thank you) would be the actual length it seems. A second in difference won't really be detrimental to the article itslef, IMO--Wuthai 03:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Copyright violation?
I am concerned about the volume of material taken from a single source and incorporated into this article. This topic is not obscure enough to justify so much material from one source in the first place, in the second place The Source probably owns the copyright on the material, and may object to the volume of material taken from its article for this Wikipedia article. Please address this issue ASAP. KP Botany 03:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Per the text section of our Fair use guideline, In general, extensive quotation of copyrighted news materials (such as newspapers and wire services), movie scripts, or any other copyrighted text is not fair use and is prohibited by Wikipedia policy. I do think the Quotes section has two quotes from that article that do not really need to be there. The others may be justified because of the context. I suggest you to ask at Fair use. The covers at the single section should be removed, as they are decorative only too (much like the quotes in the Quotes section). -- ReyBrujo 03:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Illmatic 10th Anniversary Cover Art
I own the 10th Anniversary Addition of Illmatic and was wondering if anyone wanted me to load the cover art of it. Noahdabomb3 03:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It used to be here but was removed, I suspect because it is not sufficiently different from the original to satisfy fair use. Punctured Bicycle 10:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

GA on hold
Rest looks good to me for Good Article standards. M3tal H3ad 07:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Expand the lead to three paragraphs
 * Hill cites "Memory Lane" as an exemplar of Nas' "flawless lyricism": - quote needs a reference
 * Chart positions from Billboard magazine (North America) - remove this it says it entered the Billboard in the table - also needs a reference - single positions also need references
 * Remove all the external jumps in 'Accolades' as done in Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
 * The lead could easily be split into three paragraphs. M3tal H3ad 10:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Better, i believe it satisfies the GA criteria. Although it still needs work for FA quality. Goodjob M3tal H3ad 12:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Featured
why isnt this a featured article anymore?

NPoV issues
The article is a long encomium; aside from the PoV language of some of the material and headers, and the unsourced claims to the album's supposedly huge significance, there's no balance &mdash; no indication that anyone has ever said anything less than wholly complimentary about the album. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 13:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

If there's a lack of balance, that's because the general consensus among reviewers and the hip-hop community has been unbalanced in the album's favor. Wikipedia should try to reflect this; including a disproportionate amount of subjective criticism would be false reporting in an objective sense. There's a reason this was a featured article, and at that time it had essentially the same type of POV. If you If you want to seek out and include negative criticism, it is up to you to do so, but the article as it stands does not lack the type of NPOV balance that you mention. Do not call the entirety of the article's contents into question because of your personal views. --130.64.130.214 00:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look like there's any real "issue" here with the POV, Mel Etitis just seemed to have a personal problem with it. I'm gonna go ahead and take off the NPOV tag and if there's anything you want to discuss, please do so here before putting it back.  Thanks.  --BigaZon 03:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Apparently the page is fully protected so if anyone else has an opinion on this please state your argument here, then an admin can make the decision to remove or not remove the tag.

I think there are some POV issues. For instance, there is the quote "Nas, however, made a significant comeback with the aptly-titled, Stillmatic, and his subsequent albums have received positive reviews as well. Nevertheless, most fans still regard Illmatic as his definitive album.[9]" in the "Later Nas albums" sections. I don't think the "as well" at the end of the quote acuratly represents the reception of Stillmatic. Stillmatic has gained aclaim in the years since its release, but initially it was given a negative review by Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/111200/stillmatic), along with other publications. Still, I agree that there is no POV issue when it comes to Illmatic itself. --Joaquin.sc 05:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Samples listing
What happened to the list of samples used in each song?

Track listing
I noticed the table that listed the songwriters, producers, samples etc. for the track listing was removed and replaced with only a list of song titles. An edit war then ensued between the table and list format, which is why the article is currently fully-protected. WP:ALBUM says production details should be formatted as a numbered list and a table should be used for more complicated situations. So why only list the song titles? Spellcast 13:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Table format's back. Thanks.

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:01, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

this article was featured
why isnt it anymore what is the point of editing an article if it causes it to not be featured anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xx1994xx (talk • contribs) 00:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't this featured??