Talk:IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 22:29, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

I'll place my review comments below; it might take me a couple of days to get through the article. -- This is rather a lot of issues to raise just in the first section. I'm concerned that this article, while evidently written by someone who knows the subject very well, goes beyond what can be reliably sourced and encyclopedically described. I'm going to stop the review here so we can address these points before going on. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:52, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
 * http://rec.arts.disney.parks.narkive.com/d1lAJiK6/that-music-before-illuminations is not a reliable source.
 * "The first loop played from the show's premiere through 2004, while the 2nd one ran from 2004 to 2012, after which time the first loop was reinstated. As of 2015, both loops are in use and chosen randomly each night" is unsourced.
 * This doesn't seem to have any accompanying information explaining where it comes from. It appears to live on someone's graphic design site.  What makes this a reliable source?
 * Why is Jim Cummings' entire introductory paragraph quoted? I think short quotes from performances can help the reader gain understanding, but this seems to me to fall foul of this essay.  That's neither a policy nor a guideline, of course.  In terms of the GA criteria, my concern would be with 2 (d): we should only use copyrighted material such as this for a good reason.
 * There's no source given for the first sentence following the Cummings quote, but it appears to be taken from the wdwinfo.com site. It's mostly too close to the original, but in a couple of places strays from the source -- which doesn't say it's a bass drum, for example, and which says the lighting goes out rather than is dimmed.  It can be hard to paraphrase simple descriptions, so I sympathize, but does the reader really need this level of detail?
 * I don't see any mention of a "cosmic event" in the source, and I'm not sure what the phrase is intended to mean, to be honest.
 * The same source is cited for the sentence "The show begins with explosive fireworks from the center lagoon and hot flames from the Inferno Barge", but there's no mention of the Inferno Barge in the source, and the only mention of the lagoon doesn't refer to "the center lagoon", but to "the center of the lagoon", and then only in reference to the next part of the show.
 * I am not sure that the youtube narration you cite is a good source; I've asked a question about it at the Reliable Source noticeboard, and you may want to comment there.
 * What makes allears.net a reliable source? I think it's probably OK, but I'm not familiar with it and just want to verify that it meets the criteria.
 * I don't see where the information cited to allears.net actually comes from. For example, you have "the Earth Globe appears and moves towards the center of the lagoon accompanied with water effects emanating from the fountain barges".  Can you point me at the sentences used to source that?
 * Ok, give me a couple days to get to work on this. Elisfkc (talk) 19:51, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure; as long as you're working on it I'm happy to leave it on hold. FYI, the youtube source mentioned above did not generate a lot of discussion at the RSN, but the one comment it did receive agreed that it should not be treated as a reliable source, so I think it should be removed from the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 19:55, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I think I've addressed the issues:
 * Pre-show music: Personally, I always hated this section since it has little to do with the show itself, and since those were the most reliable sources I could find about it, I took out the section entirely.
 * OK, struck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:22, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Jim Cummings Quote: Not sure how best to paraphrase, but I love the quote in its entirety. Personally, it always sends chills through my spin.
 * I've struck the comment above; the article as a whole doesn't overuse quotations throughout so I think we can let this go. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:22, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sentence following the Cummings quote: Changed to just get the point across
 * I think this is still a problem; it's no longer as close to the wdwinfo.com wording, but it still mentions a couple of things not in the source. I think it's OK to say there's a sound of the flames being blown out, since that's implied by "blows" out the torches, but the source doesn't mention a bass drum and doesn't mention the drum at all, nor the fireworks, till Act 1. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 22:28, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Took out the drum parts. --Elisfkc (talk) 21:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Cosmic Event: Took out, seemed like someone just added that in
 * OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:35, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "The show begins with explosive fireworks from the center lagoon and hot flames from the Inferno Barge": Added Allears.net citation, since that does mention that info
 * Sorry, I don't see it. It appears there's only one lagoon -- is that right?  So that should probably be "center of the lagoon", not "center lagoon".  That takes care of part of the issue, but I don't see where the Inferno barge is mentioned on the allears page. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 22:35, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * This is exactly why I wanted someone to review, because my mind has always just added the "of the" part. --Elisfkc (talk) 21:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Youtube Narration: Took out that part entirely. Someone else added statement, that was the best source I could find for it.
 * OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:48, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Allears.net a reliable source: Unofficial Disney News and Planning site. Seemed reliable enough to me
 * I'm not doubting the accuracy of the material, but per this page it appears to be a hobby site maintained by one person, and I don't think that meets our reliability requirements. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:48, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The end of the statement seems to be signed with "The Allears team". --Elisfkc (talk) 21:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

What next? --Elisfkc (talk) 19:00, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "The Earth Globe appears and moves towards the center...": Added Allears.net again, since it references this.
 * I'll hold off on replying to this until we're agreed on whether allears.net is a reliable source or not. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:49, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll go through and strike as I go, and add replies if necessary. By the way, feel free to intersperse your replies with mine; I know some reviewers don't like that but I think it's easier to read the threads that way. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 22:28, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Additional comments. -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:37, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The last sentence of Act II is uncited, as is most of Act III.
 * Last paragraph of Post Show is uncited.
 * In the first paragraph of Show technologies/The Earth Globe, all but the last sentence are cited to this wdwnews.com page, but I can't find all the information there. Where does "15,600 LED clusters" come from?  And the Earth Globe starting its journey from the edge of the lagoon?  The information about the driver?
 * The size of the globe is given twice in this paragraph.
 * There is uncited information throughout the article, including large parts of the Show Technologies sections, and a few other sentences further down.
 * Some of the information in the third paragraph of the Earth Globe section, cited to this source, can't be found in that source -- e.g. mention of Century III, or the fact that the screens are off for the first two minutes. The same problem appears elsewhere -- e.g. the Fireworks section mentions ALF and a timing chip, and Eric Tucker, but none of that information is in the source.
 * What makes Dad's Guide to WDW a reliable source? Per this page it appears to be the personal site of someone named Carl Trent.
 * I'm going to stop again here, because large parts of the article are either uncited or the citations don't support the article text or the sources appear to be unreliable. Can you make a pass through the whole article, and fix all the citation issues, and let me know when it's ready to take another look?  I'm fine with leaving this on hold if you feel you can resolve the issues, but there's a lot of work to do.  FYI, I have house guests from 5/26 through 6/2, so may be a little slow to respond during that time. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 10:37, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, sounds good. Elisfkc (talk) 01:39, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Addressed some issues, need a little more time for the rest. Elisfkc (talk) 21:54, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Elisfkc: just checking in -- are you still planning on working on this? There's a lot to do here and it might be better to fail it and fix it at leisure, and resubmit when you're ready. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 11:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking about this as I was driving today. I think that your suggestion of fail and resubmit later is the best option right now, sadly. Thanks Elisfkc (talk) 02:12, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll go ahead and fail. Good luck with this next time around. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 12:15, 12 June 2016 (UTC)