Talk:Imad Mughniyeh

Untitled
He was the son of Ayatullah Muhammad Jawad Mughniyya one of the great Shia scholars who wrote a lot of books in Islamic subjects and was a professor in Shia Islamic seminary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.218.210.189 (talk) 13:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

this article stinks even by wikipedias standards. i suggest pulling it all down and just putting what he was when he died( by whom no one knows lol). considering alot of it is speculation and stuff its like reading a spy fiction article. moreover i am pretty sure the israelis themselves dont buy into the whole master of terror thing created by washingthon i mean he was a terrorist and got what he deserved but i highly doubt he was responsible for everything they say about him.I mean seriously hes like something out of a comic book if you believe everything in the article. u kno the comic book villian type lol.

This article contains a lot of 'alleges', 'suspected of' and 'speculated that' that aren't attributed to sources. Unless something has been confirmed to be true by general consensus we need cites and all opinions attributed to people or organisations. Ashmoo 05:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The murkiness of the details surrounding his career in international terrorism is by design.

He's the operational head of Hezbollah, i.e. is responsible for planning and orchestrating its most heinous terrorist assaults. He's not a spokesman, a la Suleiman Abu Gheith, or a figurehead, such as UBL, or Hassan Nasrallah, or a "spiritual" leader, in the mold of Fadlallah or the late-and unlamented-Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Taking explicit credit for these terrorist operations is antithetical to the very demands of his job, which is why it is so difficult to pin him down. The same problem exists for the operational heads of other terrorist organizations, e.g. Saif al-Adl, or Mohammed Deif.

That being said, his orchestration and involvement in the July 14, 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847-and murder of Robert Stethem-has been documented extensively, i.e. eyewitness accounts, film footage, etc...

The other terrorist attacks are generally ascribed to him because of his leading-although somewhat murky-leadership position in Hezbollah, and his service on the Shura Council, ties to the current Iranian regime, etc...

Ruthfulbarbarity 22:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

What is the Evidence that Mugniyeh was a senior operative for Hezbollah?
Simple question. According to Judith Palmer Harik (Hezbollah: The Changing Face of Terrorism, IB Tauris, 2005), "No party has substantiated the link between Mugniyeh and Hezbollah to this day" (p 193). So, given that the article opens with a bald assertion about this link, it would surely be at least appropriate to indicate a) that there is some controversy on this matter, b) what the state of evidence is; c) what the sources for this evidence are. I note that neoconservative commentators such as Martin Kramer are adamant that there is indeed such a link, and that Hezbollah's reaction to his assassination 'proves' this.  I assume it isn't Wikipedia's policy to simply re-state what people like Martin Kramer think as fact, but to give an informed and neutral presentation of the known knowns, and known unknowns.  If you get my drift.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.125.134 (talk) 14:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The Elvis of terrorism
He was the son of Ayatullah Muhammad Jawad Mughniyya one of the great Shia scholars who wrote a lot of books in Islamic subjects and was a professor in Shia Islamic seminary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.218.210.189 (talk) 13:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC) I removed this: In 1985 his group also kidnapped four Soviet Embassy officials, one of which, Arkady Katkov, was killed.

because the New Times link is dead and the NYT story does not even mention Mugniyah. (The Islamic Liberation Organization, now extinct, was an Egypt-based Sunni group.)

Every time something blows up and we don't know who did it, a rumour goes around that Mugniyeh is behind it. Please let's leave out the rumours, especially the unattributed rumours.

LDH 05:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

In Biography, there is a free-floating, meaningless right paragraph, "......Marine barracks). please fix, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.233.227 (talk) 17:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

CIA station chief
I removed "the CIA station chief" from the article. I do see it in, but I think this is based on a misreading of , which states, "The group killed some of its captives and exchanged others for U.S. weapons to Iran in what was later known as the Iran-Contra scandal. Among those killed was the CIA's station chief." It would seem unlikely that the CIA station chief ran in the same circles (or even the same region) as Mugniyah.`Superm401 - Talk 12:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks for getting back to me. I do agree that it was likely a misreading. Joshdboz (talk) 13:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I do not not understand the objection to this. The CIA station chief was Bill Buckley, who was kidnapped in 1984 and the Islamic Jihad Organization announced his death in 1985. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.24.153 (talk) 06:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The biography section names William Francis Buckley as a U.S. Army Colonel. While he was a military officer, he was the CIA station chief at the time of his death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Casey82 (talk • contribs) 06:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is true. An article in the UK Telegraph appears to have mistakenly written that a CIA station chief was killed in the blast that killed Mugniyah; this has not been repeated or confirmed. Joshdboz (talk) 14:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, my mistake. Sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.49.148.189 (talk) 18:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

There is no question that William Buckley was the CIA station chief in Beiruit at the time of his kidnapping or that this was the reason for his kidnapping. This has been published in numerous books and articles. The removal of his position and replacing it by the generic "US Army Colonel" seems intensionally misleading. Dfoxvog —Preceding comment was added at 09:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to whomever changed it from "US Army Colonel" to "CIA station chief" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Casey82 (talk • contribs) 05:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protected
I've semi-protected the article, with an expiry of 7 days, due to anon edits like. Superm401 - Talk 13:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Since he's dead and most of the information is unconfirmed speculation and the fact that there will be no more news about him, it's time to close and shelve this article 65.57.245.11 (talk) 15:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)yadayada...yada

Nickname/title/legacy
In the ensuing media coverage following his death, I've heard a few network news terrorism experts bandy about the idea that Mugniyah was "bin Laden's role model", or something to that effect. Is there any evidence, biographical, or statement-wise, that would lend any credibility to this, or is it just people trying to puff up his death as some kind of blow to terrorist morale??? 65.213.98.242 (talk) 18:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Article lacks substance
How can it be that this man led a life of hatred for the USA and never revealed the reason behind his hatred? Did Americans kill his parents? Surely someone knows the answer and has written about it. This article needs to tell a little more about the man.
 * Well, I don't think anyone took him aside and interviewed him for a tell-all book or anything. I don't think his reasons for engaging in terrorist activities is known at this moment, but it can probably be speculated. Nishkid64 (talk) 00:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

He was a bad man??
who says, Israel??? Bush? so what... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.230.176.159 (talk) 21:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

He was involved with the hijacking of TWA Flight 847 which led to a murder of Robert Stethem and help with many other terrorist activities as well, if you don't think what he did is bad then something's wrong with you, how old are you, really kid? Iamhungey (talk) 04:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

It's not about age, It's about political agenda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.72.173 (talk) 14:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah apparently...(Iamhungey (talk) 01:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC))

A useful source
This is a reprint of a Newsweek article which provides some more biographical information that could be useful to the article's development. Please note that I downgraded the rating from B class to Start class. It's missing a lot of information, particularly on the responses to his death in the Lebanese community. I'll try to post more useful links here as I find them.  T i a m u t talk 15:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the original article in Newsweek: . T i a m u t talk 15:22, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This Time magazine article reprinted at the Tayyar site is also a good one at providing an overview of the allegations against him and the lack of information substantiating his involvement in most of them.  T i a m u t talk 15:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the original article in Time magazine: . T i a m u t talk 15:22, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Olmert's alleged private meeting
I highly doubt that Olmert met privately with Dagan to congratulate him for the death of Mughniyah. Israel denies involvement in the assassination and Syria has not even claimed that they were. Even if it were true, and I there is no reason to believe that it is, it seems highly unlikely that the Israel would leak this alleged meeting to the press. It sounds like bunk, and I will delete this sentence in a day or two unless a source can be found. --GHcool (talk) 01:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No response? OK, I'm deleting it. Thanks.  --GHcool (talk) 16:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

assassination
It's written in the above section that Israel has denied any allegation for being involved in the assassination of mornia. However, I don't remember such denial. Instead, Israel didn't acknowledge nor did it deny any involvement in the killing of mornia.

But the allegation that it took credit is wrong. The Wiki article states:

"On October 27, Israeli Major General Amos Yadlin said Israel carried out his assassination.[48]"

A look at the cited Ha'aretz article shows that this is not the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.125.123.157 (talk) 12:46, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Mugniyah's links to al-Qaeda
It sounded strange to me, since shia and sunni hate each other... sometimes however they may work togheter, like Hamas and Hezbollah. Today I read in Canadian Free Press about a meeting between Mugniyah and Osama bin Laden, Khartoum 1995. You have any other information on this? Should we add it to the article? Fernando (talk) 03:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

i would take whatever the canadian news agencies say with a grain of salt if you want something go for cnn ,yedeeot( the israeli news agency), afp , bbc , and reuters thats about it the othrs are full of shit.--70.51.18.122 (talk) 22:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

So when was he born
The article says Dec. 7, 1962, the sidebar says August 30, 1960. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.240.19.116 (talk) 18:36, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

imad mughniya terrorist?
huh, why? because george bush and the jews said so? because he fought for libirating his country ,as well as the world, from the jews and the american conquerers? imad mughniyah is a great person and his people loves him so mush and all the free world loves him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.46.112.86 (talk) 19:29, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

That's nice, go troll somewhere else kid. Iamhungey (talk) 03:14, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Took 3 years post decease to remove him from terrorist list
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/11/29/2011-30614/unblocking-of-one-specially-designated-terrorist-pursuant-to-executive-order-12947#p-10

Not quite sure where to put this in but I thought I'd share in case others found it useful. TMLutas (talk) 04:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

He's much more commonly known as "Mughniyeh" but name of article is "Mughniyah"
Just saying. I don't know how to change the title, but my impression it's a fairly elaborate 'propose', have an election, and further steps.Haberstr (talk) 18:00, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Should a gallery be included and the image size
I'm here from WP:RFPP but I'm going to ask the editors (,, , and ) to come here and discuss this image size increase and the gallery inclusion. I am expressing no opinion but will try to mediate; any further edit warring and you will be warned. Follow the dispute resolution policies and hopefully we can reach a middle ground here. If not, then the next step will be to try the Dispute_resolution_noticeboard and get a better view of the general consensus on the relevant policies and the like. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:59, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I think the relevant policy to consider is Image_use_policy. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:04, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * According to Image_use_policy adding few Images in picture gallery is useful in pages about persons. because this page is about a person some pictures of that person is useful in knowing the persons. Ahmadi 06:24, 4 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srahmadi (talk • contribs)


 * according to the Image_use_policy ..((the use of a gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text ...)) in this topic it was really hard to describe the personal and moral features of this person so i tried to use several pictures to introduce different aspects of his personality.its really hard to show such this features through text when we can show them easily in several pictures.  Saeegh (talk) 06:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Car bomb
"The spare tire had been replaced by one with a high-explosive, which detonated when Mughniyah entered the vehicle[51]" vs "A Syrian government investigation found that he was killed by a car bomb parked nearby and detonated by remote.[52]" - The article reads as if both variants were true. Now, which one is? --Kraligor (talk) 10:29, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

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Issues with quotation
I fixed a redundant word in a quotation, but I noticed that the quotation in the article does not match what is in the linked Time article. I considered that this might be due to differences in translation. Still, it is, in fact, the Time article that's being referenced. Here's Wikipedia: "Hajj Imad is among the best leaders and commanders in the Lebanon. He had an important role during the liberation [of southern Lebanon by Israel] by 2000. But as for his relationship with Hezbollah, we maintain the tradition of not discussing names and details." And here's how Time has it:"Hajj Imad is among the best freedom fighters in the Lebanese arena. He had a very important role during the occupation [of southern Lebanon by Israel]. But as for his relationship with Hizballah, we maintain the tradition of not discussing names."

The most glaring difference is "liberation" vs. "occupation", and I'm confident that the current Wikipedia version is wrong. (There are also minor differences I chose not to highlight: a/an, spelling of Hezbollah/Hizballah.)

Should the entire quotation just be taken directly from Time? Jkgree (talk) 00:48, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

This article is propagandist trash.
This article is a joke. “Guerrilla warfare”? Wrong. Terrorism. He was a cowardly butcher who attacked civilian targets and peace keepers. He manipulated less fortunate people into committing suicide (a sin in his religion, to the extent he believed in anything other than himself), yet he was too cowardly to actually engage in combat himself. It is also a simple fact that he almost single-handedly ruined Lebanon’s chance to be anything other than a puppet state. He either cared far more about Iran than Lebanon, or got completely played by Iran like an imbecile. Either way, his cause was a complete failure that destroyed Lebanon and murdered countless innocents. Notably, the article conveniently omits the horrific impact his maniacal radicalism had on his own country. Finally, any semblance of legitimacy this article might have otherwise had is destroyed by its listing of known, multi-sourced, well-documented historical facts as mere “allegations.” Who wrote this — the Public Relations Director for Hezbollah? This article is one of the reasons reasonable, intelligent people don’t take Wikipedia seriously. Be better than this. 02:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Instead of generalized complaining, please identify specific passages that you want to change, propose specific new language, and provide references to reliable sources that verify your proposed changes. Your assertion that "reasonable, intelligent people don’t take Wikipedia seriously" is belied by the fact that Wikipedia remains a top ten website worldwide, with billions of monthly page views. Cullen328 (talk) 03:35, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

What is the source Mughniyeh was linked to the Karin A affair?
Under Organizational Affiliation, it's alleged he was involved in the Karin A affair to smuggle arms into the occupied Palestinian Territories in 2002. Link

The current source provided (link is dead actually; this one still works) does not have anything on the link with Karin A (it is also misspelt).

At best Mughniyeh's affiliation with Fatah and Force 17 was at a very long time (early 1980s) before the Karin A attempt happened (in 2002), and his affiliation was in Lebanon, not the territories. The introduction to this section (Organizational Affiliation) needs modifying unless a source to Mughniyeh's link with the Karin A affair operation is provided. Abdallasalmi (talk) 00:35, 17 June 2023 (UTC)