Talk:Imelda Marcos/Archive 1

Mark Knopfler Song
There is also a Mark Knopfler song called "Imelda" (from the Album "Golden Heart", released 1996). Although not explicitly named, I think one can savely assume that the character in this song who is going shopping for shoes on the Champs Elysées is meant to represent Imelda Marcos. GeckoCode 16:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

This is correct - it is very obvious from all of the lyrics that the subject is Imelda Marcos. Also a song about Napoleon on this CD

What does this mean?
This is an odd sentence:
 * She had previously been found guilty of similar charges in 1995, but was acquitted.

Does this mean that she was charged in 1995 and acquitted, or that she was charged and convicted but acquitted on appeal? --Delirium —Preceding undated comment added 23:30, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Birth Date
I have changed the birth year back to 1929 (from 1909). All the sources I checked give that date. Do not change back without discussion and citation. --Brat32 05:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

collection
On bbc, I just heard about some clothing & jewelry named "Imelda Collection". Should this have a section, an article,...?

Does anyone have a guess as to how many more careers she would have,... or, even, how many she's already had? I am truly surprised about today's news. I'd never heard this previously. This persistence should be written about, somehow.

Thank You.

hopiakuta ; &#91;&#91; &lt;nowiki&gt; &lt;/nowiki&gt; { &#91;&#91;%c2%a1]] &#91;&#91;%c2%bf]] &#91;&#91; %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 14:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

POV
Too much POV on both sides, for and against. It also lacks a lead paragraph. What is she famous for? Not worthy as an encyclopedia article. KaElin 09:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

comment header
I remember reading (in the memoirs of a lawyer whose firm was briefly associated with Imelda) that the majority of her vast shoe collection was the result of Phillipine shoe companies donating to the President's Wife, for the prestige. DS 00:00, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Could be...remember that most, of not all of the alleged Marcos ill gotten wealth came from big Philippine corporations trying to seek favors from president Marcos. User: Soup

First, the shoes. If Imelda's shoes were truly 'gifts' from Manila's shoe industry, why then all the expensive European brands?


 * Reply --Most of her shoes with European brand names were actually made in Marikina, Philippine shoe capital. Then they were exported to Europe and were given expensive brand names such as Salvatore Ferragamo and Imelda shoe. To the one who wrote the comment about Imelda's expensive shoes, I strongly recommend that you visit the Marikina Shoe Museum and see for yourself some of Imelda's expensive "European" shoes -Angeles624 21:47, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

What's your reference? BBC states that fewer than ten of her pairs of shoes were made in the the Phillipines.

Secondly, the money. It has been estimated that Ferdinand Marcos, his wife and his cronies looted the Philippines of up to $25 billion during his 21 years of power, not $600 million as stated in this Wikipedia article. To suggest that Marcos 'earned' this amount of wealth legitimately is nonsense, considering that his official annual salary at the time averaged $13,000 a year! When Marcos established himself as dictator, refusing to give up the presidency in 1972 by declaring martial law, he eventually held absolute power as did his wife. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, as one sees so clearly by the Marcoses' example.

What is tragic is the impact this has had on the Philippines' 85 million people most of whom live in desperate poverty as a direct result of the Marcoses' economic mismanagement, cronyism, excesses and theft.

Loyalists claim that Marcos was already a rich man when he entered office...the so-called "buried yamashita treasures" come into mind. Add that to 25+ years interest money in Swiss banks and Imelda's "gold-mining expeditions", that makes a shitload of money. But that's from the loyalists.

In truth, most of that money came from the prevailing economic trend - crony capitalism. According to the book "America's Boy", briefcases were coming in and out of Malacanang Palace.

About economic mismanagement, the Philippine economy actually enjoyed a substantial growth during the Marcos regime. Trouble was, when the regime became unpopular during the 80s, and especially after the Aquino assassination, the economy became one big clusterfvck. Too much political turmoil.

$684 million has been recovered in only ONE Swiss Bank Account, and it is estimated that the Marcoses have about 10 of these. I may be wrong, but that is the estimated number of accounts. $10 billion is the most common estimate of the Marcos wealth. Imelda once said along these lines, "If you can count your money, you're poor. I don't even know how much money I have." One of the classic "Imeldisms". I suggest you to watch the award winning documentary film "Imelda" to understand more the personality of this controversial political figure.

Shoes and POV
The second BBC article that this article cites states that fewer than ten of her pairs of shoes were made in the 'shoemaking capital' of the Phillipines, yet this article suggests that all her shoes were made in the Phillipines. Also, using words like 'notorious' seems to me POV--the reader can decide for himself whether a collection of 3000 shoes is excessive. Stearnsbrian 02:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * How many feet does the average human have? 2? Then I think "3000 shoes is excessive" is an obvious fact. Assuming that's pairs, it would take you over 8 years of wearing a different shoe every day to go through the entire collection. Anyone owning that many shoes is extravagant not frugal. If each pair of shoe costed $100 (in today's dollars this is a fairly conservative estimate), that would be $300,000 spent on shoes alone. Imagine how much food that could buy for an impoverished country.


 * Most of her shoes with European brand names were actually made in Marikina, Philippine shoe capital. Then they were exported to Europe and were given expensive brand names such as Salvatore Ferragamo. To the one who wrote the comment about Imelda's expensive shoes, I strongly recommend that you visit the Marikina Shoe Museum and see for yourself some of Imelda's expensive "European" shoes -Angeles624 21:47, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What's your reference? BBC states that fewer than ten of her pairs of shoes were made in the the Phillipines.


 * I think Stearnsbrian is right about this - the amount of shoes that a person considers excessive is subjective, it is not an "obvious fact" regardless of the number of feet, time taken to wear, or number of people the money spent on shoes could feed. A stamp collection is not usually considered an excessive number of stamps simply because an average person would not go through that many stamps in 8 years.

Racketeering Charges...
Some POV in this section:

...represented by the "infamous" trial lawyer Gerry Spence...

...actor George Hamilton was a star witness for the defense.

However, the Time/CNN article cited ("Judge Wapner, Where Are You?", Time/CNN, Jul. 02, 1990. Retrieved on 2007-09-11. ) clearly states that "the defense would call no witnesses because the Government had 'utterly failed in this case.'" (page 2). George Hamilton was a star witness, but seems POV to say he was "for the defense."Aviendha16 19:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Irm.jpg
Image:Irm.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:34, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Beatles snub...
The beatles snub section contains some POV:

...they refused to attend this "command meal" of the nearly comically highly vain and superficially egotistical outlandish Ms. Marcos as it was a rare and needed day off for the young entertainers.

The section goes on to say that Marcos attempted to have the Beatles killed; there's no citation for this and as Marcos is still alive this seems a very serious acusation. 212.84.97.143 19:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed the attempted Beatle murder claim - it was uncited and is surely a libellous claim. If there's a good, legal, citation then presumably it could go back.

Apepper 15:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I've rephrased a sentence in the Beatles snub area; Paul McCartney did say he felt proud of snubbing her in the Beatles Anthology series, but the other Beatles didn't mention it. Apepper (talk) 18:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't look through the history to see what the article looked like before, but I have no clue what's going on in the beginning of the first lady section. --65.13.59.67 (talk) 17:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

iron butterfly nickname?
Iron Butterfly (disambiguation) claims: "A nickname for Imelda Marcos." Is that true or false? It shouldn't be on one and not the other. --Rajah (talk) 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

More probably "Steel Butterfly". I saw a biography with that title Heran et Sang&#39;gres (talk) 09:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Tolosa
I've seen some saying the Romualdezes built Tolosa...

But I saw a book (can't remember which) which states that the Romualdezes didn't build Tolosa, but it was Tolosa that built the Romualdezes of the south (as compared to Daniel Romualdez y Arcilla, whose family is centered in Pandacan)...

Can anyone check if this is true? Heran et Sang&#39;gres (talk) 09:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

1060 Shoes rather than 3000
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,963620,00.html cites a government source that only found 1060 shoes. Can we make the change to the leading paragraphs or should it be discussed first? Thanks RWIR (talk) 00:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Bogus edit?
"In 2011, Imelda Marcos was hit in the face by a ham." Hit in the face by (note not "with") a ham??? 71.254.193.56 (talk) 21:38, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Prepositions aside, the statement was unsourced, and I have removed it. (Should be easy to source if it's true.) Rivertorch (talk) 21:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

1979 photo
In the photo on the left, Mrs. Marcos's chair seems to be lower than that of Mr. Marcos. Possibly, this is an attempt to stop her looking taller than him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.30.71.244 (talk) 15:48, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * A photo in the article on Mr. Marcos shows that Mrs. Marcos is about 6 inches taller than Mr. Marcos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.30.71.244 (talk) 13:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The photo was taken in 1982 and a part of it appears at the top of this article on Imelda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.30.71.244 (talk) 13:50, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Mrs Marcos's Spanish ancestors might be responsible for her height. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.157.131.222 (talk) 10:26, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Discrepancy
Ferdinand Marcos is described as having become president in 1966 in one section, then 1965 in the following section. ChikeJ (talk) 04:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

He officially became the president on December 30, 1965, two days before 1966 started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.54.40 (talk) 16:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Improvements
I probably won't have time to review this article unfortunately, but I did want to point out a couple things that I think need improvement before GA status: Hope this is helpful, and good luck! delldot  &nabla;.  06:24, 16 January 2014 (UTC).
 * please see WP:OVERLINK: everyday words that don't pertain directly to the subject, like painting and model don't need to be linked and actually detract from the readability of the text. There appear to be a ton of these, maybe someone could go through and remove them.
 * WP:NPOV: I was concerned about the comment about her "grace and beauty" because it lacks neutrality. It would be fine to report that someone talked about her grace and beauty, but the article itself can't offer that kind of commentary.

What does this mean?
This is an odd sentence:
 * She had previously been found guilty of similar charges in 1995, but was acquitted.

Does this mean that she was charged in 1995 and acquitted, or that she was charged and convicted but acquitted on appeal? --Delirium

Comparison
Is Imelda Marcos the precendent for the wife of the corrupt leader who spends zillions on high fashion while natives struggle to bring food to their tables. Marcos' name has been used in comparison with Michele Duvalier and Michelle Obama. 69.143.110.86 (talk) 23:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh give it a rest. 96.41.43.212 (talk) 03:44, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The inspiration for Michelle Obama? That's hilarious.--Bridgecross (talk) 15:23, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Use of name
I wonder why she is referred to by her first name Imelda and not her last name Marcos through the article ? Iselilja (talk) 22:21, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * You're right that it should be changed. Why not be bold and change it yourself?  Be careful, however, not to introduce ambiguities; in sentences which could also be about her husband or son, you'll need to include some clue as to which Marcos you're referring to.  There's a discussion on proper use of names in biographical articles at Manual of Style/Biographies. --Alexbook (talk) 03:26, 2 March 2014 (UTC)


 * She is widely referred by her first name in the Philippines and in my opinion she is the proamry topic of her first name similar to Adele. Much like royalty, which she feels like she wants to be treated as such. There are numerous articles that use her first name alone, she even has a Imelda.--Theparties (talk) 03:52, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Quote section?
Why is there a quote section? Mark Twain does not even have one. This seems like a bit of adulatory fluff not needed for the article.96.41.43.212 (talk) 03:44, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:01, 1 May 2016 (UTC)