Talk:Immaculate Conception Apostolic School

Assess
This is a start on this school article. Further advice is available at the school project page. 1. Add some topics (like history, notable alumni, etc) 2. Keep adding references 3. Add pictures 4. Ask for an assessment at the schools project.EagleFan (talk) 15:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Legion of Christ
The attempt to remove information about the Legion of Christ and its problems is not given a credible reason. The sidebar itself says that the school is affiliated with the Legion. The statements are very extensively sourced and highly relevant to a school that is established and staffed by the Legion of Christ. I smell conflict of interest and a manner of operating consistent with behavior of the Legion as noted in sites such as www.life-after-rc.com and www.regainnetwork.orgZipcedric (talk) 06:08, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Any further attempts to remove information related to the practices at LC schools will be submitted for arbitration and, if it is repeated, I will request sanctions. Zipcedric (talk) 00:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Go for it. Your references are blogs. You'll lose. Kind regards, -- Man way  05:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

There are sources on the issue that are far stronger from WIKI’s view of sourcing (nationally circulated periodicals and books from major commercial and university presses). However these sources have, for ideological reasons, limited source credibility with the subset of the population that is most interested in becoming involved in the activities and institutions of the Legion of Christ. So, along with one article in a national journal by an internationally recognized expert on current issues in the Catholic church, I included links to blogs of people who are of national stature within the subculture of conservative/orthodox Catholic media and to networks of people in transition and recovery from involvement in the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi.

There have been multiple previous reversions -- larger than yours, at least one done by an unregistered one-time editor, more than one claiming implausibly that information about the Legion of Christ was not even relevant an article on the school. These left an article with the appearance of a brochure. I suspected tampering by individual(s) with a conflict of interest. Zipcedric (talk) 12:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanation. I have requested [third party opinion] about this sourcing and content disagreement. Nothing binding, simply a non-involved experienced editor to come in and give opinion as to your edits. Regards, -- Man way  14:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I sent a note to [| Ken Gallager] on his talk page. He had previously both demoted and later restored the references to the Legion of Christ in that article, and so seemed to me to be a neutral, informed resource. I guess that your approach was more correct protocol.

Not surprisingly, I would have characterized the issue differently. It is not merely about the abuse allegations against the deceased founder of the Legion of Christ. In particular, there has been much written about practices at the apostolic schools; including practices tending to isolate students from their families, that were the subject of direct intervention by the Vatican. Once I provide better citations, I would then want to find out whether and how I could retain links to sites that may not qualify as stand-alone reliable sources for contentious material, but which nevertheless would be helpful to anyone seeking perspective on the issues related to the Legion’s schools.

My comments about requesting intervention were not aimed at any helpful 3rd party making a reasonable request for better sources. Rather I was addressing the repeated deletion of material, with disingenuous explanations, by some apparently interested party(ies). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zipcedric (talk • contribs) 16:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * This is remarkably simple: As Manway says Blogs are, basically by definition, not reliable sources per our reliable sources guidelines. TO be honest, though, even if you found reliable sources, that section still does not belong in this article--this is the article about the school, not about the larger organization that supports it.  Putting that information here is a textbook example of coatracking.  I'm removing the whole section; I'll add this page to my watchlist and follow along with any discussions, but because this is such an obvious WP:V and WP:NPOV violation, I'm going to make the edit directly myself.  Finally, one note to Zipcedric.  You state above, "However these sources have, for ideological reasons, limited source credibility with the subset of the population that is most interested in becoming involved in the activities and institutions of the Legion of Christ." Please note that this has nothing to do with Wikipedia. We do not write our articles so that they are credible or believable to a certain subgroup.  We don't, for example, intentionally pick sources by lawyers on issue about law.  The only exceptions to this is that medical must be sourced only to medically sound references; similarly, scientific claims must come from scientists, though we can include non-scientific analysis that discuss the practical, political, or other impacts of the science.  Qwyrxian (talk) 00:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Whoops, forgot my final clarification: Zepdric, if you have reliable sources about these controversies, feel free to add them, but not to this article--please take those sources (and only the reliable ones) to Legion of Christ. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Minor Seminary
The school is a High School Seminary not just any boarding school and is clearly presented as such both to the diocese and on the Legion's website. If you want to eliminate all references, please show that it isn't. >> Jesus Loves You! M.P.Schneider,LC (parlemus • feci) 15:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Since you redeleted it, I found you a reference. >> Jesus Loves You! M.P.Schneider,LC (parlemus • feci) 17:42, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Spirituality
It is important to mention that they are taught the spirituality of the Legion to discern their vocation. I figured that everyone was taught according to the "great masters" but if that is POV, fine. If you think it doesn't make sense now, please explain. >> Jesus Loves You! M.P.Schneider,LC (parlemus • feci) 17:08, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

The Legion has a spirituality and it is defined both by itself and in some aspects by the Holy See. Approved constitutions, even if undergoing revision, are a part of any religious community's spirituality. In canon law, the Holy See only approves a congregation's Constitutions when it becomes pontifical rite, and its spirituality goes beyond it's constitutions. Before that, a community has a spirituality unapproved by the Holy See. The Legion is of Pontifical Rite so it is approved. Any community running a minor seminary would primarily be helping members discern for their own community and training them by their own spirituality. Not that this would exclude a minor seminarian to discern a call elsewhere. >> Jesus Loves You! M.P.Schneider,LC (parlemus • feci) 12:09, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

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