Talk:Immanuel Mar Thoma Church, Virginia

Tone
Mallasseril (talk) 16:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Added references that shows Immanuel Mar Thoma Church as a parish under Diocese of North America and Europe of Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church in India. Reference link provided to show that St Thomas visited India.

The article is added to provide more details of the congregation to the outside world and people who would be interested to find more info from a public domain.

Mallasseril (talk) 16:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

This article has inappropriate tone, and is full of puffery and florid praise of the congregation. It reads like an advertisement. Reliable secondary sources with significant coverage should be added. Edison (talk) 03:46, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The concerns expressed here are related to the history of St Thomas in India. It is not specific to a congregation but a group of churches in the south of India, where people fleeing religious persecution found refuge. This includes people of Jewish faith. Please see links below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin_Jews — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyrussjohn (talk • contribs) 14:59, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Notability tag
I have replaced the removed notability tag. Please see WP:ORG, the applicable notability guideline. Wikipedia is not a directory of every religious parish in the world. To satisfy notability, multiple reliable and independent sources with significant coverage of the subject are needed. The "references" are other Wikipedia articles, which do not at all qualify as WP:RS}reliable sources. Pubications of this parish are not independent sources. Edison (talk) 20:18, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree, There are hundreds of parishes in states in India for the Mar Thoma church. The Immanuel Mar Thoma Church is the first church established in the state of Virginia, considering that this church is based in a Asia with a varied history and was able to start a parish in the Old Dominion is a landmark for the Indian Diaspora. On your argument about individual churches having wiki entries, may I submit a list of others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Parish_Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesterfield_Parish_Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_First_Parish_Church,_Quincy,_Massachusetts

As always I respect your opinions but think you should let the entry stand. Cyrus —Preceding undated comment added 21:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC). Mallasseril (talk) 02:56, 24 February 2012 (UTC)Dear Mr. Edison, I have added more external links for providing reliable and independent sources with signficant coverage of the subject. Couple of the link provided are from organizations that are not in anyway related to the subject organization. One of the links out of the three provided is a coverage of the inaguration of the parish by the parent organization. I totally understand that you are only asking for reliable sources and we humbly provide you with these links for your review. We will respect your decision however ask that you provide us with a space to exist in the public domain to show that Christianity originated in India in AD 52 and believers of Jesus Christ from India which is only 3% of the total population has found a way to establish a place of worship in the state of Virginia. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mallasseril (talk • contribs)
 * It is not my decision, but that of the community of editors. The purpose of promoting the view that Thomas went to India and funded the church is not a basis for keeping or deleting an article, and it is already covered by the article about the denomination and about the diocese. (My own view has long been that the story is very plausible. It was possible to travel from the Middle East to India in the first century, and there is nothing unlikely about an apostle founding a church there). So far the references are not of the sort needed to satisfy WP:ORG. A church newsletter for a different denomination is not what we look for as a reliable source, though it is certainly independent. Other Wikipedia articles and websites of the parish lack independence. Newspapers are always looking for something new and different to write about, and newspaper in the local town would likely send a reporter around to write an article about the church, since as you say the denomination has an unusual history, and this is the first parish in the US. To satisfy WP:ORG, there should be multiple such stories, more than just reprinted press releases, or routine announcements of happenings, or directory listings, or trivial coverage. There are also magazines which cover various Christian religions in the US which might write articles about the parish. Additionally, there should be at least one reference not just from the local area (like an article in a newspaper in a different city). There are many articles about local congregations, such as the three listed above, and most of them get deleted when they are nominated for deletion at Articles for Deletion.  The three listed above, however have church buildings which are listed historical monuments, and that would likely keep the articles from being deleted. If this parish owned a church building which was architecturally significant (won awards, designed by famous architect, written up in books about architecture) that would certainly help its argument for notability, but I see they just borrow space from a Lutheran church at present. Edison (talk) 23:03, 24 February 2012 (UTC)