Talk:Immigrant generations

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Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no consensus to move the article from First generation immigrant to "First generation citizen", per the discussion below. Merges and redirects can be discussed separately. Dekimasu よ! 07:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC) It seems to me that this should be an article on "First Generation Citizen". Only one generation can immigrate to the country and have offspring in the country. The children of an immigrant are not immigrants, they are natural born citizens. Therefore, there seems to be little value in qualifying the word "immigrant" with the number of generations. The word "citizen", on the other hand, should be qualified with first/second generation, because a family can have many generations of citizens. I suggest moving this article to First Generation Citizen, then cleaning it up a bit. Javidjamae 06:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * That's not exactly true. A landed immigrant need not apply for citizenship, indeed, some countries don't allow immigrants to obtain citizenship, IIRC. Children born to immigrants while in-country don't necessarily obtain citizenship either. I suppose a non-citizen child of immigrant might be a second generation immigrant? This also doesn't address the status of children of refugees, which for some countries are also not accorded citizenship at birth unless the refugee is already accorded citizenship. 132.205.99.122 19:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but a first-generation citizen and a first-generation immigrant are different things and perhaps both should be documented Javidjamae 22:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How about First generation immigrant, which Second generation immigrant redirects to, gets merged with 1.5 generation and the whole thing gets moved to something like Immigrant generations? Ewlyahoocom 07:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Debate?
Is there any debate concerning the terminology 1.5G. Some people perceive it as derogatory because of "half" is realted to the idea of incomplete. Are there any "official" discussions going on about this debate? Are there any alternative names for this group being discussed at present? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.32.234.252 (talk • contribs).


 * Not that I know of, that the term is considered derogatory or that there's some debate going on with it. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I cleaned this article out. Just because you can find some reference in some babble in print doesn't mean that it governs the terminology, especially when you have "sociologists" trying to change the meaning of words long established in another discipline so that it makes themselves look clever or doesn't hurt the feelings of some misguided moron. There is nothing wrong with the word "immigrant". I can't believe the number of times some upset young person has demanded to know, "When a person stops being an immigrant?" Well, I suppose a person stops being an immigrant if he moves back to his own country, otherwise he is an immigrant. His natural born child (in countries where that confers citizenship) is a "First Generation American (or whatever)". His grandchild is Second Generation... and so on.

The US census doesn't govern this terminology. Genealogy governs this terminology. The US Census is corrupt in its terminology because political forces want to blur the distinctions between citizenship and residency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.161.100 (talk) 15:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Alternative term for this group
How about 1.x generation? X = a variable number and illustrates the fact that there are many levels of "assimiliation." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.32.234.252 (talk) 17:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Got a source for this? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I have never understood this term. A first generation immigrant is the first generation born in the new country, and hence children who immigrated at a young age would be before the first generation. You would think the term would be 0.5 generation —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lieutenantmudd (talk • contribs).


 * Well, I get it. A first generation immigrant is also your parents (ex. if you're an American-born Chinese and your parents are from Asia, they're still first generation because they're legal US citizens, thus making their kids the second generation, assuming they were born here). Unfortunately, if they married and had kids in Asia, and brought them here with them, the kids are not second generation and yet not as experienced or old enough like their parents to be first generation. So they're stuck in the middle, and called  1.5. ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 Refill/lol 01:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

What?
Many 1.5 generation individuals are bi-cultural, combining both cultures - culture from the country of origin with the culture of the new country. Some notable members of 1.5 generation are: Elaine Chao (immigrated from Taiwan to U.S. at the age of eight), David Ho (immigrated from Taiwan to U.S. at the age of twelve).


 * wiktionary:sequitur
 * nonsequitur
 * sequitur

What, exactly, is the wiktionary:thesis  here? Is the goal to list the immigration of every celebrity? Just what sort of an article should this be? Should it be only North American immigrants?

In the wiktionary:non_sequitur  page are:


 * "Take my wife - please." -- Henny Youngman
 * "If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised." -- Dorothy Parker
 * "A fool and his money are soon partying." -- Steven Wright

Those are humorous, which this article is not. Beside that, I do suspect a grammar  problem. Take my paragraph,  %c2%b6, please. If all of the celebrity immigrant articles were laid end-to-end, would we party?

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 21:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

1.5 gen?
I don't feel that the term is very accurate, however. Although the examples listed point to fairly safe ages (ex. eight, ten, twelve), what if the child had immigrated from a foreign country at a very young age (ex. five or even two or three, or a year like Tila Tequila)? They most likely know very little or even nothing about their native country... No offense, but I do know quite a few people who were like that, moving at the ages of two or three or four, and that's it. Most of them cannot speak, much less read or write, their native tongues. Would they still be considered 1.5? ★ Dasani ★ 03:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

First-generation immigrant vs first-generation Ruritanian
There seems to be some confusion in the article, which I have started to address: the article is nominally about "first-generation immigrant" but seems often to apply more to "first-generation citizen", e.g. as in "first-generation Ruritanian". What about, for example, people who immigrate permanently to a country but do not become citizens? In many countries their children could have dual nationality, both of the adopted country and a parent's country.

Also, it is incorrect, and in many cases offensive, to speak of "second-generation immigrants"; such people are not themselves immigrants. "Second-generation Ruritanian" is, on the other hand, correct.

These topics allow for much discussion, which highlight that the article is largely what Wikipedia calls original research, and bans. Pol098 (talk) 12:59, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
 * great job i tagged it a little and if no one else has sources i will start to clean up!! Bouket (talk) 07:33, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

cleaniup
i removed this dead link


 * Roberge, Mark. (2005). "Who are Generation 1.5 Students?" Northern New England Teachers of English to Speakers of Other Languages Conference, Southern New Hampshire University.

Bouket (talk) 00:10, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Original Research
I realize just griping and not trying to fix it isn't entirely helpful, but this article is just terrible in its reliance on opinions of editors, especially given an apparent lack of agreement on definitions. This whole "1.5G" thing in particular seems pretty fringe, and thus given undue weight (assuming it should even be included at all). --CAVincent (talk) 09:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * yes thats why i tagged it last week! if someone doesnt come up with sources and i dont find any ill remove it but you can remove it or fix it first if you want! Bouket (talk) 09:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Second generations who feel closer to their parents' culture than that of their birth country
How come all the definitions on this wiki page are so unambiguous? Why does it have to be that one absolutely had to have migrated from one country to another to be considered a 1.25/1.5/1.75 generation immigrant? Is no one going to account for the people who are born and raised in a different country from the one their parents did, yet they feel closer to their parents' culture than the one they grew up in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.210.248 (talk) 06:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * One has to have migrated from one country to another to be considered an immigrant, as per the definition of immigrant.
 * It is irrelevant how one feels about cultures, countries and what not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.57.78.10 (talk) 17:36, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

What about children of parents with varying immigration generations?
It seems to me that the whole subject is kinda ridiculous, since many immigrants marry citizens whose citizenship stretches back multiple generations. For example, I'm British and I married an American who can trace her ancestry in America back to the 11th generation in the 1600s. Is my daughter first generation (due to being the first of my kids born in the US), second generation (due to being the daughter of a naturalized citizen), or 12th generation (thanks to her mother)? Also, I got US citizenship after she was born, so that makes my daughter first generation again, right? So she's first, maybe second (depending on the requirements), and 12th all at the same time. At a certain point, it all becomes kinda silly. It's kinda like people of Irish descent claiming to be Irish when they've never set foot in Ireland. I reckon if you're born here, you're from here, and if you migrated here, you're an immigrant - anything else is nonsense. Ianbrettcooper (talk) 22:32, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

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This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 January 2022 and 18 March 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TKUW.

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