Talk:Imperial War Museum Duxford/Archive 1

Images
I don't like having a gallery here. Could we instead select the best images and integrate them per usual practice? --John (talk) 01:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That sounds good to me. Nick-D (talk) 04:24, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Monty was in charge of D-Day???
This doesn't sound right to me. Nor does the following sentence, which implies that he continued this overall command until the end of the war (which I know to be untrue [Eisenhower]). Historian932 (talk) 05:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It says he was in charge of all allied ground forces, which he was, as commander of 21st Army Group. Eisenhower was Supreme Commander of all allied forces. Here's a quick reference: "... appointment of Englishmen to all three subordinate commands for OVERLORD - Sir Bernard Montgomery on land, Sir Bertram Ramsey at sea, Sir Trafford Leeigh-Mallory for air." He continued to lead 21st Army Group, although it was reorganised to mainly consist of British and Canadian forces, the previously subordinate US forces going back under US  control. Hohum (talk) 18:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Declaring my interest
Hello all. I am a curator at the Imperial War Museum, and I recently got the main IWM article to Good Article status. I would like to try and do the same for this article. I have already declared my conflict of interest at WP:COIN and the responses I received are copied on my talk page. I propose to start by rewriting the lead and restructuring the article - at the moment various sections are in wrong place. If any editor has objections to my edits, they are invited to discuss them here.--IxK85 (talk) 14:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's good that some work is being put into the article, however, can you provide references to the information you are adding - this is needed if it's ever going to get beyond a Start class. Hohum (talk) 19:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello. Of course, verifiability is very important. I think the first thing to do is the History section, which at the moment is largely a copy of the history on the IWM Duxford website. --IxK85 (talk) 22:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Bulleted columns
At the moment the bulleted columns of aircraft and vehicles make the article unneccessarily long and break up the structure of the sections. I propose to change, for example, the AirSpace bullets to the table below.

This way provides more information and a more complete list, is cited, and reduces the 'bulkiness' of the article. However, as this article has used the current structure for a long time I thought it best to propose this first. Will go ahead if there are no objections. -- IxK85 (talk) 16:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Tweaked: I dislike the grey of the default wikitable, it's pretty jarring in articles as far as I'm concerned.
 * {| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed" style="text-align:left; background:white;" width="50%"

! style="width:40em; text-align:left;" | Aircraft on display at AirSpace ! Owner
 * colspan=2 align=right|Duxford Aviation Society:DAS Imperial War Museum:IWM
 * Airco DH.9
 * IWM
 * Airspeed Oxford
 * IWM
 * Avro Anson
 * IWM
 * Avro Canada CF-100
 * IWM
 * Avro Lancaster
 * IWM
 * Avro Shackleton
 * IWM
 * Avro Vulcan
 * IWM
 * Avro York
 * DAS
 * British Aircraft Corporation/Aérospatiale Concorde
 * DAS
 * BAC 167 Strikemaster
 * IWM
 * BAC TSR-2
 * IWM
 * Hawker Siddeley Harrier GR3
 * IWM
 * de Havilland Comet 4
 * DAS
 * de Havilland Mosquito
 * IWM
 * de Havilland Tiger Moth
 * IWM
 * de Havilland Dove
 * DAS
 * English Electric Canberra
 * IWM
 * English Electric Lightning
 * IWM
 * Fairey Swordfish
 * IWM
 * Handley Page Hastings
 * IWM
 * Handley Page Hermes IV (fuselage only)
 * DAS
 * Handley Page Victor
 * IWM
 * Hawker Hunter (cockpit section)
 * IWM
 * Hawker Typhoon Mk IB (cockpit section)
 * IWM
 * Miles Magister
 * IWM
 * Panavia Tornado GR1
 * IWM
 * Pilcher Hawk glider (replica)
 * IWM
 * Royal Aircraft Factory R.E.8
 * IWM
 * SEPECAT Jaguar
 * IWM
 * Short Sunderland
 * IWM
 * Supermarine Spitfire
 * IWM
 * Vickers Viscount
 * DAS
 * Westland Lysander
 * IWM
 * Westland Wessex
 * IWM
 * Westland Whirlwind
 * IWM
 * Branson/Lindstrand Virgin Atlantic Flyer capsule
 * IWM
 * }
 * Irritatingly, the article looks ok as-is to Firefox users, since it renders the double columned lists correctly. Hohum (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you reckon then? Go with your tweaked table? --IxK85 (talk) 22:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Another alternative is to use a non CSS3 implementation of columns, which should render in all browsers, and is far easier to edit than a table.
 * Panavia Tornado GR1
 * IWM
 * Pilcher Hawk glider (replica)
 * IWM
 * Royal Aircraft Factory R.E.8
 * IWM
 * SEPECAT Jaguar
 * IWM
 * Short Sunderland
 * IWM
 * Supermarine Spitfire
 * IWM
 * Vickers Viscount
 * DAS
 * Westland Lysander
 * IWM
 * Westland Wessex
 * IWM
 * Westland Whirlwind
 * IWM
 * Branson/Lindstrand Virgin Atlantic Flyer capsule
 * IWM
 * }
 * Irritatingly, the article looks ok as-is to Firefox users, since it renders the double columned lists correctly. Hohum (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you reckon then? Go with your tweaked table? --IxK85 (talk) 22:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Another alternative is to use a non CSS3 implementation of columns, which should render in all browsers, and is far easier to edit than a table.
 * IWM
 * Westland Whirlwind
 * IWM
 * Branson/Lindstrand Virgin Atlantic Flyer capsule
 * IWM
 * }
 * Irritatingly, the article looks ok as-is to Firefox users, since it renders the double columned lists correctly. Hohum (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you reckon then? Go with your tweaked table? --IxK85 (talk) 22:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Another alternative is to use a non CSS3 implementation of columns, which should render in all browsers, and is far easier to edit than a table.
 * Irritatingly, the article looks ok as-is to Firefox users, since it renders the double columned lists correctly. Hohum (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you reckon then? Go with your tweaked table? --IxK85 (talk) 22:02, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Another alternative is to use a non CSS3 implementation of columns, which should render in all browsers, and is far easier to edit than a table.


 * Airco DH.9    (IWM)
 * Airspeed Oxford    (IWM)
 * Avro Anson    (IWM)
 * Avro Canada CF-100    (IWM)
 * Avro Lancaster    (IWM)
 * Avro Shackleton    (IWM)
 * Avro Vulcan    (IWM)
 * Avro York    (DAS)
 * British Aircraft Corporation/Aérospatiale Concorde    (DAS)
 * BAC 167 Strikemaster    (IWM)
 * BAC TSR-2    (IWM)
 * Hawker Siddeley Harrier GR3    (IWM)
 * de Havilland Comet 4    (DAS)
 * de Havilland Mosquito    (IWM)
 * de Havilland Tiger Moth    (IWM)
 * de Havilland Dove    (DAS)
 * English Electric Canberra    (IWM)
 * English Electric Lightning    (IWM)


 * Fairey Swordfish    (IWM)
 * Handley Page Hastings    (IWM)
 * Handley Page Hermes IV (fuselage only)    (DAS)
 * Handley Page Victor    (IWM)
 * Hawker Hunter (cockpit section)    (IWM)
 * Hawker Typhoon Mk IB (cockpit section)    (IWM)
 * Miles Magister    (IWM)
 * Panavia Tornado GR1    (IWM)
 * Pilcher Hawk glider (replica)    (IWM)
 * Royal Aircraft Factory R.E.8    (IWM)
 * SEPECAT Jaguar    (IWM)
 * Short Sunderland    (IWM)
 * Supermarine Spitfire    (IWM)
 * Vickers Viscount    (DAS)
 * Westland Lysander    (IWM)
 * Westland Wessex    (IWM)
 * Westland Whirlwind    (IWM)
 * Branson/Lindstrand Virgin Atlantic Flyer hot air balloon capsule    (IWM)


 * Hohum (talk) 16:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, will go with that version. --IxK85 (talk) 12:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

American Air Museum - proposed expansion/Image gallery
As the AAM is architecturally notable in its own right, I propose to add a section on the architecture and construction of the building. Also the image gallery does not really comply with WP:IG, and some of the images show aircraft that have since been moved to other locations (Vulcan, Lancaster, Mosquito, Concorde). Propose to trim those images now and try and find better images for relevant sections, so the gallery can be removed. --IxK85 (talk) 12:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All sounds good. Galleries have always seemed to me to be the equivalent of "misc" sections of text, and the guidelines encourage streaming text (so why not images too) into relevant places in the description instead of being dumped in a list of their own. – Kieran T  (' talk ') 13:11, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, in the absense of a decent panorama of the inside of the AAM, I'm going to move and rearrange some of the shots currently in the gallery. --IxK85 (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Land Warfare Hall
Propose to chop the sections on the Land Warfare Hall, Normandy Experience and Monty, and replace with the below. Also I think the list of theatres and vehicles is not particularly useful.


 * Land Warfare Hall
 * The Land Warfare Hall was opened on 28 September 1992 by Field Marshal Lord Bramall. The building provides accommodation for the Imperial War Museum's collection of armoured vehicles, artillery and military vehicles. Also included are vehicles belonging to the Duxford Aviation Society Military Vehicle Section. The hall comprises a viewing balcony that runs for most of the length of the hall, providing views over a range of tableaux of vehicles, tanks and artillery that run chronologically from the First World War to the present day. The Second World War in particular is illustrated with tableaux of the North African Campaign, the Eastern Front and the invasion of Normandy. Significant vehicles in the collection include three caravans used by Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery, commander of 21st Army Group during the north-west Europe campaign. Also on display are extracts from Montgomery's personal papers, which are held by the Imperial War Museum's Department of Documents. Other tableaux depict scenes from post-war conflicts such as the Korean War, the Northern Ireland Troubles, the Falklands War, British peacekeeping contributions in Bosnia and the Gulf War. As many of the vehicles in the Land Warfare Hall are maintained in running condition, the site features garages and a running area behind the building.

--IxK85 (talk) 13:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

History section.
I'm sorry to say that I think the history section is too long and detailed compared to the rest of the article. The article should concentrate on the museum role, because that is the subject. Hohum (talk) 19:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You're probably right. I think a certain amount of detail is needed, given that part of Duxford's value is in its preservation of a historic site, but I'll see what can be trimmed. --IxK85 (talk) 20:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Aircraft lists
Watching how the article is developing, I'm not sure the lists of aircraft are actually necessary (given the link to the Aircraft and Vehicles list) and they probably violate the guideline on summary style. Chopping them and replacing them with prose about especially notable aircraft would probably make the article rather easier to read. Thoughts? --IxK85 (talk) 15:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Comments?
Looking at the article now I think it's more or less complete. Has anyone any comments or objections before I put it up for Good Article review? --IxK85 (talk) 11:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Airshows and flying
Hello all. If no one objects I'd like to update the third paragraph of 'Airshows and flying' as it's becoming increasingly out of date. Propose to replace that paragraph with: IxK85 (talk) 16:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Major air shows held regularly include the Duxford Air Show, the Flying Legends show (organised by The Fighter Collection), and American Air Day, which is held in conjunction with units of the Third Air Force (part of the United States Air Forces in Europe), based at nearby RAF Lakenheath and RAF Mildenhall. The Duxford Air Show usually exhibits a wide range of aircraft, from vintage warbirds to contemporary jet aircraft, along with aerobatic flying by groups such as the Red Arrows. while the Flying Legends show focuses on historic aircraft, especially those of the Second World War. In 2008 it was reported that these displays generate up to £1.8 million, while the loss of up to £100,000 due to adverse weather is also budgeted for. The policing bill, necessary to manage the resulting road traffic, was reported as some £8,000. Recent major events have included the Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary airshow, held on 4-5 September 2010. The show was attended by more than 40,000 people, and featured formation displays by four Hawker Hurricanes and sixteen Spitfires.