Talk:In the Pale Moonlight

Title (Batman?)
Does the title of the episode really refer to a quote from Batman as this article states? -- Rebelstrike 11:13, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, yes. The quote is from the flashback to Bruce Wayne's parents being murdered, and is said by the murderer (the Joker IIRC) to the young Bruce. When you consider the moral theme of the episode, I'm sure you'll agree it makes sense! However, I don't know whether the line in Batman was a reference/quote from something previous.


 * Well it definitely doesn't come from that Sting song-- I mean, really.  I'd say it's more like a reference to the quote of the Joker in Batman due to Garak's murders.


 * In an episode of The Center Seat: 55 Years of STAR TREK, the writer of the DS9-episode states that--though he was sure it referred to something ancient--all of his fellow writers thought it was from BATMAN. --MythMan Jay (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

--Hey, wasn't the actual quote from Batman "Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moon light?" This is what imdb.com quotes it as, making the title of this episode erroneous. Roguephantom

--IMDB is incorrect. It is in fact "in the pale moonlight." And the moral issues raised in this episode suggest that "dancing with the devil" is the idea being invoked.Staypuft9 00:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

'To dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight' is a very old folktale archetype present in British and French folktales. The Batman film simply used it, as did this episode of DS9. The authors of DS9 being well real individuals, I suspect they got it from the original source, not from Batman. Obviously all of this is original research so I won't add it to the article, but I would strongly advise against adding a trivia line about the title coming from Batman.

As a final word on this, a recent viewing reveals that the Joker delivers the line twice in the Batman movie, and uses "in" and "by" as the preposition once apiece. Either way it is largely irrelevant, just as the previous poster said. Staypuft9 (talk) 15:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

First shots
Maybe my memory is failing me, but what is the article referring to when it says Sisko fired the first shot in the war pomegranate 10:26, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

It was Sisko's actions in mining the wormhole that started the Dominion War. -- Rebelstrike 14:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm I guess but I'm not happy with that wording, I think it needs qualifying with what you said, for it to be appropriate. But do we really think that Sisko believes he is responsible for the war? The conflict was entirely inevitable and the minefield just brought its start forward a few weeks or days and gave the Dominion an excuse to start the shooting. It woulda happened anyway, some other way. pomegranate 21:35, May 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * Eh, "fired the first shot in the war" and "was responsible for the war" are two very different things, as Gavrilo Princip might tell you. DS 19:23, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I changed it to "helped start the war." His actions in mining the warmhole clearly helped instigate the fighting, however it is likely the conflict would have started even if he had never existed. Thus "helped start the war" is the most accurate and indisputable phrasing to use. - Hayter 11:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * If he'd never existed? As far as DS9 is concerned, if he'd never existed the Wormhole would not have been discovered and the Dominion would never have found a way to the Alpha Quadrant. However I agree with your edit. 77.99.233.169 09:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Vreenak line flub?
Maybe I am hearing the line spoken by Vreenak wrong after he arrives on the station. He says to Sisko "the way the war is going with the FEDERATION it may not be around much longer." Referring to DS9. I do believe he should have seen "...the way the war is going with the DOMINION." --Frenkmelk 01:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not an error. The Romulans had always had an uneasy relationship and even some wars with the Federation up until this episode, and Vreenak was an ardent supporter of the Romulan non-agression pact with the Dominion. Hence his comment was quite correctly phrased, he would have been happy to see the Dominion wipe the floor with the Federation. 77.99.233.169 09:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I have a feeling that...
...Captain Benjamin Sisko was the only DS9 character who tears down the fourth wall throughout "In the Pale Moonlight" by addressing his personal log to a viewing audience at home.Don-Don 22:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That's frame story, not really breaking the fourth wall. There are other Trek episodes in which events happen that - from the characters' POV - didn't actually happen. Think of the TNG ep. "Clues" or any of the time travel reset-button episodes like "Year of Hell". Wl219 22:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, just as I thought. Just as I suspected.Don-Don (talk) 03:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)