Talk:Independent Air Flight 1851

Untitled
Plz pardon my ignorance, i'm not an editor. I served as flight crew hired to replace the crew from "Tango." Independent Air was indeed a charter airline headquartered in Murfreesboro, TN with an office in Atlanta on Virginia Ave. (if someone wants to put their 'H.Q.' location on article?) best regards. Janeair2 (talk) 21:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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Translated from Russian
I translated the article from Russian, all by myself. It’s still a draft as it still has issues that require attention. Here’s the link: Draft:Independent Air Flight 1851 I’m actually disappointed because I did nearly everything by myself. Tigerdude9 (talk) 18:18, 13 December 2018 (UTC)


 * FWIW The Russian article probably used English sources, so it would seem daft to others to translate information from Russian that was originally in English! Certainly use the Russian article to look for sources but English-Russian-English translation is probably to much effort and could introduce errors when the original sources could be read. MilborneOne (talk) 18:32, 13 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Yep, it does seem daft. The Russian article seems to be based entirely on the ASN entry and the accident report, so it offers nothing that cannot be learned directly from the sources. This linguistic round trip En-Ru-En simply introduces the risk of information getting distorted. In fact, I'm going to remove the banner from the article. --Deeday-UK (talk) 01:38, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Book on accident
I´ve written a book on this disaster and would like to know if it is possible to put an entry on the page, alongside the reference in the bottom for "further reading" (which I greatly appreciate to the kind soul who did it). I tried to add twice about the book but it was always deleted.

If it breaks Wikipedia standards, I understand that it is removed. Still, I see that other air accident pages have references to documentaries, books and similar sources in the text of the article, instead of just the reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.29.137.36 (talk) 00:13, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I am the 'kind soul' (thanks) that added your book to the Further reading section, and I also deleted your last contribution, as that is merely self-promotion of your own work. On this subject, I strongly suggest you to read Wikipedia's guidelines about conflict of interest. Essentially, assuming your book can be considered a reliable source, referencing it here is best left to uninvolved members of the Wikipedia community who have read it, and hopefully there will be many. --Deeday-UK (talk) 12:47, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello there

Many thanks for your reply. I understand the conflict of interest and I won´t argue against the Wikipedia standards. I´m sorry if I caused any problem and if there is any way I can help, just say it.

Regardless, I would like to contribute to the page (or try to, as I´m a bit of a rookie in here). The page says that: “ This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. (July 2013)”.

If it refers to the paragraphs regarding to “Crew” and “Accident”, most of the data presented there is from the reference below •	Duke, Thomas A. (February 1995), "Aircraft Descended Below Minimum Sector Altitude and Crew Failed to Respond to GPWS as Chartered Boeing 707 Flew into Mountain in the Azores" (PDF), Accident Prevention, Flight Safety Foundation, 52 (2): 1–15, Archived from the original on 16 November 2012

The only exception I could find is the crewmembers name (no official report I found had their anmes), which was noticed on the day after the crash, on several US newspapers, such as this https://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/09/world/charter-jet-crash-in-azores-kills-144.html

Hope this can be of any help. Best regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by MadXico (talk • contribs) 18:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * By all means have a go at improving the article; at worst, your edits can be reverted with one click. The banner at the top refers to the fact that basically none of the paragraphs in the article apart from the Lawsuit section is linked to any of the sources listed at the bottom, and there are also few sources in total. The listed article by Duke and indeed the NYT article you mentioned could be excellent starting points, and are likely to support most of this article's existing text, which could probably also be expanded with further info from those two sources. For guidance on how to reference sources, see WP:REFSTART. Please remember to append four tildes ( ~ ) at the end of your posts on Talk pages, to automatically have your post signed.  --Deeday-UK (talk) 01:32, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I tried to improve the articles to at least link the sources to the data presented. Hope it helped and didn´t make it worst. MadXico (talk) 02:39, 21 January 2019 (UTC)


 * That's a good start. I too meant to do some clean-up on this article, which I'll get around to do at some point. --Deeday-UK (talk) 07:40, 22 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Glad I could help. Don´t want to "self promote", but you might find the info on my book useful for this article. All the best.MadXico (talk) 18:38, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Any idea why my book was deleted from "further reading"? MadXico (talk) 19:34, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Potential pilot suicide?
I hate to jump to the extreme but I got an urgen question after reading the following: "In descending below the safe indicated altitude, he [the pilot in command] knowingly placed the plane in a dangerous situation. He then proceeded to fly into the top of the mountain that he knew was there" Could this had been a deliberate crash? Tigerdude9 (talk) 21:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * More likely just unidiomatic use of the word knowingly and knew. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:C8EA:BE3:CA64:B8A6 (talk) 08:19, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Date confusion
Is the date of the accident 9 february or 8 ? Some sources say it is 8 while some say it is 9 Yozdek (talk) 14:47, 3 April 2021 (UTC)


 * It was on the 8th 37.189.9.8 (talk) 16:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

"This could have been facilitated by the presence of a flight attendant in the cockpit, "
What was "facilitated"? The failure to notice the pressure difference? Cabin crew in cockpit is a notorious source of distractions, so I imagine this is what is meant. "Facilitate" does not work like that in English. Was this translated from the Italian by some well-meaning Italian speaker? 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:C8EA:BE3:CA64:B8A6 (talk) 08:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Need flight 2600:8803:F606:4600:70DD:CFD7:F156:6012 (talk) 01:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)