Talk:Indian-head test pattern/Archives/2012

Why is there an Indian head on it?
So why is there an indian head on it? That's the most interesting question. Postdlf 05:31, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm more interested in whoever drew it. -96.225.163.38 (talk) 05:01, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * An artist named "Brooks" drew it. It's in the article.
 * He might be traceable through very old phone books, or a city directory if he didn't have a phone. There's a lot people named Brooks, but probably only one of them was an artist who lived in the Harrison, New Jersey area in 1938. Milo 09:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know why there's an indian head, but if somebody finds out, it should be added to the article. - Hydroxonium (talk &#124; contribs) 07:00, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Its still being used.
for the local cbs station in anchorage alaska, they still use this test pattern, I think this is the only station in the world that still uses it.

I dont know if they're using it right now, but from the time I lived there (I moved in 2004) they were still using it.

And yes, I'd like to know why its an indian head as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.154.214.252 (talk) 09:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Newtek
Added historical note for Newtek's use in the Video Toaster product. I used the Video Toaster 2000 (and still have a VT Flyer 4000), and I am guilty of inserting the IHTC into my productions (along with the quintessential 'clapboard countdown' and sync pulse).... 137.246.200.49 17:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Error in test card graphic
The 50 to 300 and 325 to 575 resolution test scales are not quite right.

Mainly it's the 325 to 575 scale. Being a resolution scale, the lines should get progressively thinner toward the lower (larger number) end of the scale. That doesn't happen at all between 325 and 575, and it happens a bit too much with the 50 to 300 scale (the lines are too thin at the 300 end).

I don't know the source of the graphic, but it would be nice if this error could be corrected as it appears to be perfect otherwise. 76.204.79.214 (talk) 06:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You have a good eye. I see it too after comparing TESTPATTERN RCA 3.jpg graphic recreation to the previous image RCA Indian Head test pattern.JPG (when enlarged), and also when compared to the original artwork at the bottom of Chuck Pharis' web page.
 * Click on any image to find its source. User:Emdub510 linked the current version, TESTPATTERN RCA 3.jpg on 21:57, 17 January 2008, to replace RCA_Indian_Head_test_pattern.JPG . Info at TESTPATTERN RCA 3.jpg says uploader Emdub510 "self-made (redrawn from source art in public domain)".
 * Another point is that the recreated Indian is too detailed compared to the original master copy, or original "copy ready" artwork above it. The Indian on the original master copy appears to have been ink-outlined to reduce detail. One can just barely see the ink outlines. Milo 08:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Copyright issue.
If the image of the test screen was indeed created in 1938 as "made for hire", it will not enter the public domain until 2033. Made for hire works are protected for 95 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.35.21.2 (talk) 18:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Indian Head Test Pattern is a public domain work because it was published between 1923 through 1977 without a copyright notice. See Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States chart by Peter B. Hirtle at the Cornell Copyright Information Center. Milo 22:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The image in the commons is an unauthorized derivative work, which (intentionally or unintentionally) omits RCA's copyright notice. The original carries the mark "© RCA MANUFACTURING CO. INC" on the right hand bottom of the main circle. Please see http://www.pharis-video.com/p2804.htm There is a capture from the original TK-1C by Chuck Pharis that shows the copyright notice. [ 96.35.21.2 23:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC) ]


 * I assume you have confused the TK-1C video capture image, with the scanned illustration from the TK-1C manual on the next page.
 * Magnification shows there's no copyright notice in the TK-1C video capture shown on its page: www.pharis-video.com/p2804.htm. Furthermore, there's no notice on the ' "copy-ready" completed artwork', which was used to make the TK-1's 2F21 graphite image anode plates that generate the test pattern video (see it at www.pharis-video.com/p4788.htm (#4 down photo ihtp-8~1.jpg)).
 * In those days, no notice on a large number of copies meant no copyright.
 * The manual illustration copyright was unlikely to have been renewed in 1967, when RCA was only three years away from discarding the original monoscope tube artwork along with the vacuum tube factory. Milo 08:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see how the graphic in the manual is not a published copyright. I'm sure that the graphic in the manual carried RCA's mark in all instances of printing, not just some. "Unlikely to have been renewed" is not the same as "has not been renewed". Wikipedia's policy on copy right isn't "Use it until we find out if it's not legal." Perhaps instead of assuming public domain you should contact Thomson SA and request permission or clarification on it's status. 96.35.21.2 (talk) 08:56, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Under 1909 copyright case law, RCA lost their copyright on hundreds of graphite printed on aluminum copies sold without a copyright notice, which were then publicly displayed as they intended by video. 1909-era copyright notices could not be covert, so the copyrighted image in the manual does not protect copies of the public domain video image, or derivatives of the public domain video image displayed in this article. Milo 22:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Here is a 1949 Radio & Television News article on TV test patterns featuring the RCA Indian Head pattern. 

The first page has a master copy of the pattern showing a copyright notice. 

The second page shows the actual pattern produced by the RCA "Monoscope" on a TV screen with no copyright notice. 

I know that movies were put into the public domain because the studio failed to put a copyright notice on a significant number of prints. See Night of the Living Dead. I don't know if the RCA test pattern is public domain or not. -- SWTPC6800 (talk) 04:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Notice that on Pharis' page, the original master copy does NOT have a gap in the vertical bar where the copyright notice was displayed on printed copies (i.e., Pharis' TK-1 manual and the Radio & Television News article). However, the "copy-ready" version of the artwork has a gap in that area, but NO copyright notice. That indicates RCA intentionally omitted the copyright notice on copies made for the TK-1, which were the ones seen on screen. Therefore, since that version was widely published in the U.S. before 1978 without a copyright notice, the image is now public domain. (Please note, however, that Pharis' "restored" prints are NOT public domain; restorations are new works subject to modern copyright laws.) --RBBrittain (talk) 14:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Deleted text
I deleted the following text from the article because, though nice to know, it is irrelevant to the article's subject. I copied it here before deleting in case someone wants it for a more appropriate article:
 * With the scheduled end of USA high power analog broadcasting on February 17, 2009 (low power USA TV stations may continue analog broadcasting), "snow" may be the only thing visible when an old analog TV is turned on without a digital TV converter.
 * (Reference text) Approximately one-third to one-quarter of this "snow" static is residual background radiation from the Big Bang. http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/commentary/static.html

--RBBrittain (talk) 13:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Since you seem unfamiliar with this obscure history, as a courtesy to the regular editors please ask questions before boldly deleting.
 * The sentence provides a historic context for current TV viewers. You've left a deletionist mess since the previous sentence reads,"..."snow," indicating the absence of a broadcast signal on the channel." —And the next history-unfamiliar editor might delete that sentence because s/he thinks TV sets don't work that way. Absent channel "snow" has rarely been seen on recent decade analog TVs due to 24 hour programming, channel pre-selection, cable noise blanking, and video noise blanking.
 * "Snow" (or "bugs") was a constant TV companion in the Indian Head era. Not only as the next "program" after the test card, but seen every time the mechanical tuner was rotated to change channels. Contemporary young DTV viewers may never see "snow" at all.
 * I've reverted this unnecessary churn since the text will be changed anyway after 29 more days, when the US government decides whether to complete or delay analog TV cutoff. Milo 21:47, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Technical usage
I would like to see a "Technical usage" section or something similar that describes how the test pattern was used. For example: what are all the numbers for, why are the lines and drawings shaped the way they are and what adjustments are made to TV equipment using this pattern? Anybody else feel this is appropriate to the article? - Hydroxonium (talk &#124; contribs) 07:32, 21 August 2010 (UTC) ¶  Amen. What are the numbers and lines for? Sussmanbern (talk) 02:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Analog Signoff
> Many of the nation's television stations used the image of the Indian Head card to be their final image broadcast when they signed off their analog signals for the final time between February 17 and June 12, 2009, as part of the United States digital television transition.

I don't believe I have *ever* seen a Citation Needed tag I agreed with more. I've watched literally dozens of those signoffs on Youtube, and I have yet to see that actually done, though I think it would be really, really cool. --Baylink (talk) 15:58, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * A single example doesn't qualify as a citation of the use of the word "many," but here's one. Fitfatfighter (talk) 06:11, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have to disagree. Well known statements of fact, well known among knowledgeable, informed people that is, surely do not require citation. Examples include such things as "Wikipedia uses Mediawiki," "the sun rises in the east," and "millions died in the Great War and World War II" and so on. Every single word in an encylopedia does not require substantiation and the more universally known the fact, the more this is true. kcylsnavS 12:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Fallout Image
I think the image looks good in the pop culture section but it bothers me that its not the english version of the photo. I found an english version if some one could upload it and edit it in as I can't upload photos yet. Thanks =D PleaseStandBy (talk) 03:57, 21 April 2012 (UTC)