Talk:Indian roller/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: MeegsC (talk · contribs) 12:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I'll review this one. It may take me a few days to post my first comments. MeegsC (talk) 12:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

This is already in good shape; it has a lot of good detail, and is generally well-written. That said, there are some nitpiks. If you'll strike these out as you deal with them, it will help me to know what you've fixed.
 * The lede should be a summary of the article. Right now, it has no information about the diet or reproductive ecology of these birds. That should be added.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest you add the basics of the nest, number of young, etc. Something like: "The female lays 3–5 eggs in a cavity or crevice, which is lined with a thin mat of straw or feathers."


 * The map in the infobox has two colours, but only one colour is explained in the key.
 * Ahoy I think this must be that paler/hashed area is vagrant range. But I have not seen key for map in Fry Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Revised legend based on map in iucn red list: hashed area is for non-breeding range. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 08:32, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The map in Fry is tiny (Plate 37 page 98). It doesn't include the shaded area on the Arabian Peninsula depicted in our range map - although Fry is the cited source. I've looked at other range maps. The shaded area is not included on the map in Cramp (p. 779).  The shaded area is depicted as a Non-Breeding" area on the map on the Cornell/HBW webpage here (subscription required) but not on the ebird page (also Cornell). It is depicted on the IUCN map as a Non-breeding area here. The map on Xeno-Canto does not include it. I've added the IUCN as an additional source for the map on Commons. - Aa77zz (talk) 09:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The iucn assessors apparently neglected the report on breeding birds in the Arabian peninsula, which I had added a while ago to section Conservation: acc. to this report, it IS indeed breeding there, see ref 49. So I suggest that we change the colours in map. Or how should we handle this discrepancy? -- BhagyaMani (talk) 09:44, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, two of the iucn rl compilers are also authors of above report, viz Symes & Taylor. Strange though that the report is not listed in the bibliography of this account. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 10:22, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * What discrepancy? The sources agree that the Indian roller breeds in United Arab Emirates and northern Oman - they differ only in the non-breeding area. I cannot see a range map for the Indian roller in Symes et al (ref 49). They mention breeding but that could be in the United Arab Emirates and northern Oman. Aa77zz (talk) 10:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * For some birds listed in this appendix, they mentioned individual countries or regions. So I assumed that when referring to Arabian peninsula, they mean not only UAE and Oman, but also Saudi Arabia. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 12:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * There are a few eBird sightings in the shaded area recorded here


 * Check the footnote numbers. MOS says they should be in numerical order, but they aren't in several cases.
 * Fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * In the paragraph about the first description of the species, in the sentence "...derived from a drawing by illustrator Joseph Dandridge, who in turn received a drawing...", there should be a "had" before received.
 * Fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * In the Description section, it should be "broad-winged" not broad winged.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "The bill is bill tinged with brown at the base." There's an extra "bill" in there. And what colour is the rest of the bill, if the base is brown?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Consider linking some of the potentially less well-known body parts (maybe tail coverts, underwing coverts, primary coverts, lesser coverts, axillaries) with birdgloss entries.
 * Linked some, though they will come up as duplinks I suspect Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:33, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "... with a similar pale blue band across the most lateral five or six flight feathers" You mean distal rather than lateral (i.e. the feathers on the wing that are farthest from the body)
 * Yes/Done. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:36, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "The colours look dull when the bird is perching..." Perched rather than perching.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "mid June" and "mid August" should have dashes.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "A scanning electron micrograph of the Indian roller's blue feathers shows a channel-type nanostructure with β-keratin rods and air channels." What does this even mean?!
 * Revised. BhagyaMani (talk) 07:56, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Revised further, its positioning could still be reconsidered. Shyamal (talk) 06:32, 26 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Consider breaking the vocalizations out into a titled subsection.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Would this subsection not better be placed under Behaviour and ecology? -- BhagyaMani (talk) 08:04, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It is standard to have it under Description for bird articles. LittleJerry (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "Kaarsch calls are made during rolling displays and increase in frequency and volume as it flies towards an intruder." "It" should be replaced by "the bird".
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "When perched side by side, rollers make chattering heard as staccato." I think there must be some words missing here, as this sentence makes no sense.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Consider breaking similar species into a subsection (Similar species).
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

More to come! MeegsC (talk) 21:43, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Errr (waves arms crazily)........Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:50, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Arg! Sorry about the delay. Too many irons in the fire!


 * I'm a bit confused by some of the Distribution section. For instance, the sentence "In the early 1970s, it was observed in the marshes and mudflats of Shadegan County in Iran where it was a common winter visitor." suggests that it is no longer found in that country. Is that correct or does this need to be made clearer? And the sentence "It has been recorded as a summer visitor to Jalalabad in northeastern Afghanistan." suggests it's only there in the summer. It would be good if this section clearly identified where the bird breeds, where it's resident and where it winters, if those are different places. It's pretty piecemeal at the moment.
 * Link "roundabout" for our American readers.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "They patrol their territory by flying at the tree tops or three-stories high and when an intruder is spotted, they are driven away by a fast rolling flight." Is this meant to say that they fly at treetop height? It's not clear at the moment. In the second half of the sentence "an intruder" should be followed by "it is", not "they are".
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "It has also been observed perching in trees and shrubs at a height of 3–9 m (10–30 ft) from where it forages for ground insects." As a birder, I think I understand what you mean here, but it's not going to be clear to nonbirders how a bird "forages for ground insects" from 9 metres! Perhaps "It perches in trees and shrubs at a height of 3-9 m (10-30 ft), dropping to the ground when it spots prey"?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "The display of the Indian roller is aerobatic with twists and turns and is attracted by fires." Do fires really cause the bird to make display flights? Or are there two completely unrelated details in this sentence?
 * It has been observed to follow tractors for disturbed invertebrates "observed following" rather than "observed to follow".
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "Crows are driven away from nests and have even been recorded repeatedly divebombing an Egyptian vulture." Right now, this sentence says crows divebomb Egyptian vultures, which I'm sure is not what you mean.
 * In the sentence "... display to each other with bows, dropped wings, fanned tails..." there should be an "and" before fanned tails.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "The fledge period" should either be "the fledging period" or rewritten to say "The young fledge after 30–35 days."
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The Indian roller descends to the ground to capture insects and too a lesser extent amphibians, reptiles, birds, and small mammals. should be "to a lesser extent", not "too a lesser extent".
 * Well-spotted and fixed. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)


 * In the food and feeding section, the whole paragraph is singular except the last sentence. That should be changed to avoid the jarring change.
 * Fixed. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)


 * It is attracted to swarms of winged termites, and as many as 40 birds have been seen to perch on a 70 m (230 ft) stretch of electric wire. Were the 40 birds on the wire because of a swarm of winged termities? That's not clear here. Maybe add "to take advantage of one swarm", or some such?
 * tweaked. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:55, 31 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "As of 2016, the Indian roller is listed as Least Concern on the IUCN Red List..." should be "...listed as a species of least concern" And "least concern" should be lowercase, per WP:MOS.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Is there no population estimate for India?!
 * I have no idea. I did not add that into the lead and have tweaked it (I mean it is almost certainly true but have not seen anything confirming or quantifying it) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:58, 31 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "Adding its chopped feathers to fodder for cows was believed to increase the latters milk yield, giving them also the Telugu name of pɑːla-pitta or milk bird." Latters should have an apostrophe, and you've switched tenses from singular to plural here "its --> them".
 * Done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:00, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Ping me when you've had the chance to deal with these, and I'll take one final look; nearly there now! MeegsC (talk) 12:50, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay over to you - thanks for being thorough Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:00, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

There are two issues that don't appear to have been sorted yet. I'll paste them in again below:
 * I'm a bit confused by some of the Distribution section. For instance, the sentence "In the early 1970s, it was observed in the marshes and mudflats of Shadegan County in Iran where it was a common winter visitor." suggests that it is no longer found in that country. Is that correct or does this need to be made clearer? And the sentence "It has been recorded as a summer visitor to Jalalabad in northeastern Afghanistan." suggests it's only there in the summer. It would be good if this section clearly identified where the bird breeds, where it's resident and where it winters, if those are different places. It's pretty piecemeal at the moment.
 * Re Shadegan County: I found about a handful of publications about birds in the Shadegan wetlands dating 2010+, but Indian roller is not listed in any of them. So it's not clear whether it is still a winter visitor there. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 15:20, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Re summer visitor in Jalalabad: yes, only there in summer. Lets ask to confirm. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 15:25, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, let's hear what they have to say. I guess I'd suggest adding something like "More recent reports no longer include the roller." or something similar to the sentence about Iran, to make it clear the bird is no longer regularly seen there.
 * I didn't write that part. ?, ? LittleJerry (talk) 15:29, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not sure that I can embellish without violating OR. The source recalls records from the 1970s and I can imagine that whole area being easier to do birdwatching then than now (well, since the early 1980s actually) so who knows. I am busy with RL chores. Need to sleep and look at records again. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:48, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that if the section is tweaked somewhat to indicate broadly where the species is resident, where it winters and where it breeds, with an indication of where the status is uncertain, that will suffice. Right now, I find the very specific locations for Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan a bit odd, given that the article is nowhere near as specific about its occurrence elsewhere. Saying that the last reliable reports of them wintering in Iran date from the 1970s would be perfectly acceptable, I should think.
 * I have rearranged it - order is now general resident/summer visitor/vagrant/historical winter visitor, thus moving from confirmed/abundant to vagrant to historical. I often add specific areas at the borders of a bird's range to be as exact as possible regarding distribution - i.e. no point mentioning anywhere specific from the middle of its range as it occurs all around, but I feel the edges (where known) are important. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks ; that's pretty much what I was hoping for. MeegsC (talk) 09:19, 6 June 2021 (UTC)


 * "The display of the Indian roller is aerobatic with twists and turns and is attracted by fires." Do fires really cause the bird to make display flights? Or are there two completely unrelated details in this sentence?
 * revised + added a ref -- BhagyaMani (talk) 15:38, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That's much clearer. Thanks!

Other than that, it looks good! MeegsC (talk) 14:19, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Happy to give this one its star. Nice work, everybody! If you're thinking of taking this to FA, I'd consider adding informative captions to the pictures (i.e. something other than "Bird in location" or "Bird eating insect" – particularly in the newly added gallery. MeegsC (talk) 09:19, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the thorough review Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Also thank you, MeegsC!! -- BhagyaMani (talk) 15:30, 6 June 2021 (UTC)