Talk:Indian wolf

Iranian Wolf not Indian
please take a look at this web pages:
 * http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/wolves_in_iran.htm
 * http://www.cosmosmith.com/iranian_wolves.asp
 * http://wapedia.mobi/en/Iranian_Wolf

The most resources that you used to develop this article,focused on the "Iranian wolf (Persian wolf)" word.there are many more articles about this kind of wolves in books too. thanks for your attention —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.144.160.4 (talk) 23:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

They are the same animal.Mariomassone (talk) 10:27, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

So let's merge the two articles. Chrisrus (talk) 18:30, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Some Indian editor are trying to push Indian wolf title which is different than Iranian wolf for this page. Lupus Indica is different than Iranian wolf (Lupus Pallipes). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.175.16.8 (talk) 05:41, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think you have any reason to think "some Indian editor are trying"(sic) to do this. Do you have definitive sources one way or another about this?  Something in a journal?  It would be nice to get these subspecies sorted out correctly. ErikHaugen (talk &#124; contribs) 06:24, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

In the article titled Iranian wolf the referenced article by Aggarwal et al. (2003) is incorrectly cited: the authors wrote that C. lupus pallipes is also found in middle-Eastern countries like Iran and Israel, but they did NOT propose to (provisionally) use the vernacular name "Iranian wolf" for this subspecies, NOR to use the scientific name Canis indica for the Indian wolf. Therefore, I agree with Mariomassone and Chrisrus and suggest to place a redirect in Iranian wolf to the article titled Indian wolf. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 14:53, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * This confused me too some time back. It looks like they are definitely the same species and I've just made it into a redirect...now how about a mention or clarification about this "Iranian Wolf" name in the main article? Thank you IP, for waking us all up. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:38, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Redirect : well done! Iran is already listed as a range country of C. l. pallipes. But ecological baseline info about wolves in Iran is really sparse -- see this article by Hosseini-Zavarei et al. (2013) -- and far less known about them in neighboring countries. The fact that C. l. pallipes occurs in Afghanistan doesn't make it a different subspecies. The use of country names in vernacular names of (sub)species is apparently misleading some readers to think that these populations understand the concept of political boarders. One way to resolve this misunderstanding may be to replace the title "Indian wolf" by Canis lupus pallipes, and explain in the intro section that this subspecies was initially described from India and therefore called Indian wolf by early naturalists (referencing Sykes, Sterndale, Blanford, Lydekker, + Pocock); some biologists call Irani C. l. pallipes populations Iranian wolf, and some Saudi Arabian call them Arabian wolf, although latter name is also used for C. l. arabs; but all of them have the same taxon in mind. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 20:49, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Added in Wikiproject Iran. FWIW, Wikipedia Species goes in a different direction. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 15:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Taxonomy
I have updated the Taxonomy section of the Himalayan wolf and the Indian wolf to reflect the research of Sharma and Aggarwal. The research findings were based on a very limited number of specimens which did not convince the CITES Animals Committee that these were separate species, and a call for wider research was made. However, the committee did approve the use of the name be entered into the species database as a synonym of the name under which it was listed. What this means is that in the CITES species database, researchers may enter information under the name Canis himalayensis as long as it was a sub-topic of Canis lupus chanco, and the 2 haplotypes proposed within the Indian wolf to be entered under Canis indica as long as it was a sub-topic of Canis lupus pallipes. This is what I have captured with the synonym entry for each. As far as MSW3 is concerned there is no Canis himalayensis nor Canis indica, and therefore as far as zoologists are concerned these do not exist. Nonetheless, based on the limited samples that were provided by the Aggarwal, as far as evolutionary biologists are concerned there is a genetic difference and sequences are being compared in research reports under the names HW and IW. I trust that this information will help stop some of the disruptive edits that have been made recently. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   21:52, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I am confused. The sources cited in this article make it quite clear that there is a C. lupus pallipes that is entirely genetically distinct from the Indian wolf, and more closely related to all other wolves with the Indian wolf occupying a basal position. This seems to be substantiated by numerous studies from independent authors (which are cited right in the article). To lump them all together under one article seems at best misleading and at worst completely wrong. --172.76.5.26 (talk) 21:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

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Indian Wolf Size, with Added Sections
I added some information on the size and weight of Indian wolves, plus a section for hunting and predation on livestock. I am working on limited sources due to information on this subspecies being generally hard to find, and would like to see more development on the two sections with more solid sources. I am using the numbers from the National Studbook, 17-25 kg, and the average weight of 20.75 kg from an article concerning the harmonic vocal repertoire of the Indian wolf. I also checked the original sources for [3] and [4], both of which don't support the claim of 25 kg, hence deletion. There are indeed some sources claiming that the Canis indica is smaller than the Canis lupus pallipes, although more research is still needed to come to the conclusion if the two should be distinguished given the limited sources and the lack of consensus.Zirlwyn (talk) 01:24, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1809981/ [4] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0469.2006.00400.x

National Studbook: http://cza.nic.in/uploads/documents/studbooks/english/nswolf.pdf

Average body weight of 20.75 kg: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0216186

Habib B. Ecology of Indian wolf [canis lupus pallipes sykes. 1831), and modeling its potential habitat in the great Indian bustard sanctuary, Maharashtra, India. Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh (India). 2007.

Culture section
One sentence claims that the Iranian attitude towards wolves is "ambivalent," but then describes them being characterized as "demons" or used in "cautionary tales." In these tales, I've only found themes of "wolves will trick you and eat you." Unless there are some more positive stories in the culture, I think the word "ambivalent" should be changed. 184.67.135.194 (talk) 21:21, 7 October 2022 (UTC)