Talk:Indigenous planning

Untitled
Hey friends! Looks like we can keep the talk page now.... I have started the summary, but as of yet article is still real short. Please add to it, and throw in headings, etc. as they become relevant! Jkivettk (talk) 20:07, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I just tried to address the issues stated in the template message. I added some links to other articles and and added links in other articles to this one. We should keep the template for a few days just to remember us to do those things when adding content in the article.Gamesketcher (talk) 19:40, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, dude! I am making a couple adjustments to the text now. Happy to see things moving! Jkivettk (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The articles I tried to integrate would work well as examples of Indigenous planning in the canadian context. Wondering what you all think about having case examples or just keep it general. I worry that picking an choosing examples would give priority to certain groups and not others. Annataz (talk) 05:13, 13 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Anna, I think it would be interesting to have some examples (cases) of indigenous community planning in action - perhaps 3 cases (Canada, Australia, US?, for example) --Hayesjess (talk) 00:23, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi all, can we decide on whether we will capitalize or not capitalize 'indigenous', or be clear on where we will and where we won't to keep it consistent across the article? --Hayesjess (talk) 00:23, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Let's capitalize it --Hayesjess (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Also wondering what you all think about the section in our article which says "rather than planning done by non-Indigenous peoples and imposed upon Indigenous communities" - I find this a bit strong and perhaps value-laden for the lead section - perhaps we can remove it from here and describe in the Overview how Indigenous planning has often replaced Western planning as a more culturally-responsive form of planning. I also find that the sentence I am referring to necessarily excludes non-Indigenous people from engaging in Indigenous planning. Thoughts? --Hayesjess (talk) 00:47, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Re: the 'Principles' section- anything in there needs to be written up in full sentences and like the content for other sections. Anything in 'see also' needs to connect to another Wikipedia page. --Jkivettk (talk) 01:34, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've linked existing Wikipedia articles to the 'See also' section - anything that was previously there which doesn't have a Wikipedia page has been moved to the 'principles' section. I will develop this section further tomorrow, removing the bulleted list and expanding it into a regular section with added citations. I will also fill in the description under Canada case study and CCP. --Hayesjess (talk) 01:48, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Someone wrote that the IP division of the APA was created in 1995 - in Jojola's 2008 article I am seeing it say that this division was started in 2005. Anyone know more about this? --Hayesjess (talk) 20:01, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

I was thinking if we could bring the content of Indigenous Planning Culture to here. To make it more simple, I would just cut and paste it all under our Overview heading. What do you think? The author of that section was down for it. Gamesketcher (talk) 07:10, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hayesjess, Gamesketcher, Jkivettk, CREdwards, Annataz. Peer reviewers: Laratboulos, Holliemckeil, Wongvvn.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2021 and 24 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): WaterBottleTable.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Proposed citations for this article
Hi all, here are some of my proposed citations to add to our bibliography - feel free to draw from these sources as you add content to our article!

Barry, J. (2015). Unsettling planning education through community-engaged teaching and learning: Reflections on the indigenous planning studio. Planning Theory & Practice, 16(3), 430.

Cook, J. (2008). Building on traditions of the past: The rise and resurgence of first nations CCP. Plan Canada, 48(2), 13-17.

Cook, J., New Relationship Trust Corporation & Beringia Community Planning Inc. (2009). Gaining momentum: Sharing 96 best practices of first nations comprehensive community planning. West Vancouver, B.C: New Relationship Trust.

Cook, J. (2013). Honoring indigenous planning: Renewing our commitment to action. Plan Canada, 53(2), 7-13.

Harivel, C., & Anderson, C. (2008). First nations comprehensive community planning - a good investment for Canada. Plan Canada, 48(2), 29-31.

Indigenous & Northern Affairs Canada. (2004). Experiences in First Nations, Inuit and northern communities: Comprehensive community planning. Ottawa: Indigenous & Northern Affairs Canada. Indigenous & Northern Affairs Canada. (2010) CCP Handbook: Comprehensive Community Planning for First Nations in British Columbia. Ottawa: Indigenous & Northern Affairs Canada.

Jojola, T. (2008). Indigenous planning-an emerging context. Canadian Journal of Urban Research, 17(1), 37-47.

Porter, L., & Barry, J. (2016). Planning for coexistence?: Recognizing indigenous rights through land-use planning in Canada and Australia (New ed.). New York; London: Routledge, Taylor & Francis Group. doi:10.4324/9781315600727

Sandercock, L., Cook, J., Sparrow, L., & Grant, L. (2013). Indigenizing planning, education, decolonizing planning practice. Plan Canada, 53(2), 48-51.

Walker, R. C. (2008). Improving the interface between urban municipalities and aboriginal communities. Canadian Journal of Urban Research, 17(1), 20.

Walker, R., & Matunga, H. (2013). Re-situating indigenous planning in the city. Plan Canada, 53(2), 14-17. --Hayesjess (talk) 19:52, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Comments
Hi all, just read through your page, keep up the good work! Just a few general comments since I cannot highlight the specific sentences on the page -- it has to do with the flow of the sentences and how the sentences read as a Wiki page. Some sentences in your page should be more assertive, even if what is said cannot apply to every Indigenous planning case/scenario etc.

For example: "An underlying theme that might be perceived...." is a sentence found in the Overview section. It sounds a bit uncertain, as if the author is unsure whether or not it is true! Maybe it can be reworded to "In some cases, an underlying theme ... etc etc " or "One of the many common themes..."

There are a few other sentences on the page that sounds 'uncertain', which is normal for an essay and academic writing but maybe not wiki! Also, maybe be weary of long sentences!? I edited a sentence into two, feel free to revert that if you guys don't agree, thanks! Wongvvn (talk) 07:32, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey team, this is looking fantastic! I agree with Vivian's points about stronger and direct language and shorter sentences overall, given the wikipedia guidelines.

As well, there is some inconsistency with regards to referring to Indigenous planning, Indigenous community planning, Indigenous communities' planning, and perhaps more iterations. I would suggest choosing one (Indigenous planning makes the most sense to me, since it's the title of the page) and then add a bracket with all the others listed: (also known as Indigenous community planning, Indigenous communities planning,...) etc. Hopefully that makes sense. A thorough read-through/search and replace will help sort that out!

Also, you might want to consider taking some time to go to other wikipedia pages and link back to yours, to bolster its place in the overall wikipedia network. Perhaps on the urban planning page you could add it to the "see also" section, and that type of thing.

Keep up the good work!! Laratboulos (talk) 08:01, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Already done --Hayesjess (talk) 16:50, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

One last thing! Is there an opportunity to discuss future directions of Indigenous community planning? What about any relationship to things like UNDRIP? I also believe the Canadian Institute of Planners does Aboriginal planning awards, check their website and see if that's worth integrating into the article somewhere. Laratboulos (talk) 08:04, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey friends- just getting back to this now- just wanted to say it is looking great! Thanks for all your work while I was awol this week. Will put in some thoughts/ help as per a couple suggestions above later this weekend. - Jkivettk (talk) 06:59, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Balance to this article
Hello, I have re-read through this article and I have several points that I believe would improve this article. First and foremost the title of this article is indigenous planning. As a matter of fact there is no finite definition as to what exactly indigenous means, as all communities have utilized planning. This is discussed in great detail in the History of urban planning article including examples beyond merely the indigenous Native American, Hawaiian and other communities within the realm of the Western world. In fact it may be more appropriate to identify a more precise title. As we have historical examples of 'indigenous' peoples of every geographic locality and the basis of Wikipedia requires that we WP:Globalize to provide balance.

There are several extremely broad claims in this article that haven't been defined. First and foremost "Mainstream Planning", what is mainstream planning? How is it defined? Are you presuming in your own context that there is even a worldwide definition of "Mainstream Planning" - because there isn't one. An example of social/economic/land use/infrastructure planning in the Peoples Republic of China is in fact all encompassing beyond mere land use planning. Another issue is the idea that only native peoples (in whatever context in that specific locale) can plan native communities. That perspective needs to be better explained as it could be viewed as xenophobic. A broad view of the field of urban planning is that it is a profession. One in which that the practitioner can bring the same scientific, social, mathematical, rational or other professional practices to identify and accomplish the goals of the plan needed regardless of their color, creed, sex, national identify etc. It is one of the prevailing issues that separate urban planners from being viewed with the same esteem and social/cultural regard as other professions such as civil engineers, architects, physicians etc. It is also one of the same reasons that the original urban planning article grew so large that it collapsed and had to be separated out. Another point, the seven generations model or perspective is not employed by all indigenous peoples. Customs are incorporated into all types of planning as an assumption. Customary law (traditional law) is based on this. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 20:03, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello Randomeditor1000, and thank you for your thoughts. As a course assignment, we were tasked with the subject of "Indigenous planning", hence the (perhaps more narrow than you would like) title. We do link to the page on Indigenous peoples, as the communities we are referring to. Additionally, we do emphasize that Indigenous communities have all utilized planning, in part as the assumption to the contrary (that these communities are seen as uncivilized, chaotic, etc. etc.) has been the basis of colonizing and patriarchal forces. This article seeks to acknowledge the history of planning within Indigenous communities in particular. We do acknowledge that attempting to constrain this to a Wikipedia entry is problematic, however it is important that it is not subsumed into what can be seen as more 'mainstream', technocratic, Westernized planning processes. We understand there is no agreed-upon definition of 'mainstream planning' as, like most other fields of study and practice, the boundaries are fluid. However, urban planning is certainly not it. The examples we use here are intended to be the beginnings of a collection of Indigenous examples from different contexts. If you know of others, would you please contribute them? We acknowledge that yes, this article is framed largely by the differentiations provided by colonization, but that Indigenous planning can also be seen to have different spatial/ temporal boundaries, and welcome further constructive contributions on this. Urban planning is an overlapping field of planning, yes. However, many Indigenous communities are not urban, and the field of urban planning still struggles, I would argue, with the recognition of Indigenous peoples within the urban context. The 'customs that are incorporated into all types of planning as an assumption' are often those of a particular mindset. Our work here on Indigenous planning is not intended to undermine the work of urban planners, but instead to also contribute recognition of another set of planning histories to the Wikipedia world of planning. Jkivettk (talk) 03:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)-
 * Hello Jkivettk,
 * First let me say that your group's work is commendable and helpful for a broader context view. I would posit that the general consensus from the academic perspective is that Urban planning does not merely constitute the planning of urban areas, but rather is the name of the field (umbrella) that incorporates many subdisciplines at all geographic levels with the limitation that in some areas it does not necessarily include the entirety of social planning. This is not unlike how large and inclusive the umbrella of what Civil Engineering or Architecture is and is not. I would suggest that because urban planning was historically incorporated from many disciplines that the practices of the planning for such thematic areas are in fact a part of urban planning; just not limited by the traditional social constructs of professionalization or occupational closure. I unfortunately do not have the answers to even my own questions as I am merely involved in the field. One thing to understand is that I did add certain tags to clarify the statements for WP:Verifiability and WP:NPOV which are part of the Five Pillars of WP. WP:Opinion has a better discussion on this than I can explain. Ultimately, WP:OR is not something that goes into an wikipedia article as an encyclopedia and so WP:IS and WP:ISNOT many things. No system is perfect and certainly WP is not either. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 05:55, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi all, I have moved most of the indigenous planning culture content from the indigenous planning culture article to this one. I included a redirect on the other page so that the edit history would still be available.CREdwards (talk) 20:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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