Talk:Indulin AA-86

Speculations - composition of Indulin AA-86
I started this article trying to get at what this compound is, but I still have no idea. Nonetheless, at this point I have a guess which, being purely speculation, and not by someone all that good at organic chemistry, I cannot possibly add, but I'll note it here in case it helps someone else pull out a relevant fact.

If you start with some fatty acid, I have no idea which, you can come up with a fatty amine. So you could take, say, lauric acid from coconut oil, react it (for example) with ammonia at 250C over alumina or zinc oxide as our article describes, and you get a fatty nitrile, which can be hydrogenated over Raney nickel or copper chromite to get a fatty amine. This amine could then participate directly as the nucleophile in a Michael reaction as our article on ethyl acrylate explains to add to the alkene there. (hmmm, despite that article I think that's just a generic nucleophilic conjugate addition; I think Michael is only when it's a carbanion doing the attacking) This would lead to a net formula of CH3(CH2)11(NH)(CH2)2COOCH2CH3. The nitrogen could accept H+ to form a salt with Cl-, i.e. mixture with hydrochloric acid as described. But I wouldn't be surprised if that nitrogen gets something more interesting than hydrogen off it. A thing to realize is that this would be simply a "soap solution" (in the sense of an artificial detergent) not much different in concept from something like cocamide DEA that was in all our shampoos growing up. Then again, now they say that wasn't safe.

I have simultaneous thoughts that "oh hell, this is probably just soap, more or less" and "OMG, I have no idea what's in the secret formula". I have no idea what the EPA limitations on use actually mean - is it simply that the company had no interest in filling out more paperwork, or something further? Wnt (talk) 02:21, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

On the other hand, this patent suggests a much more complex compound (it is held by a different group (Quimigel) and so seems unlikely to be the formula for this, but it suggests this is a more sophisticated field than I imagined) Wnt (talk) 03:53, 18 December 2016 (UTC)