Talk:Industrial design/Archives/2012

Let's learn about wiki design, shall we?
As a computer scientist I have yet to find an algorithm for determining Alpha Urine electronically. However, these blokes give it a go:

Re: Frankly Mr. Nigel Cross professor of Design at the Open University, I would be suprised if you even knew what true design was and is.

For your information Paul Turnock and Ray Stroud happen to be two of the best Industrial designers and teachers I have ever had the fortune to meet. Not in any way promoting Brunel University, but I am an ex-graduate of Brunel University's Dept. Of Design, and I would challenge you to find any top UK based and US (for that matter)design consultancy that has not heard of at least Paul Turnock. The man is a living legend of design and I will not even dignify your comments with explaining why. And in addition to your comments on my former university, it happens to be one of the top 3 design schools in the UK and has produced more top flight product and industrial desgners in industry leading consultancies and companies than any other University or institution. As for the user who has added comments promoting Brunel I can assure you these are not embelishments...But if you were a lecturer of note you would have an appreciation for our notorioty..alas..

You should take a look at the annual degree show if you are in any doubt...www.sharperdesign.co.uk..designed and funded entirely by the students of that graduating year, as well as the publication if a design book distributed worldwide...Best of luck with the Open university.

A.Bartlett

I think we have here an example of self-promotion. Frankly, I do not know who Paul Turnock and Raymond Stroud are, nor why their 'work at Brunel University' deserves to be mentioned. Nigel Cross


 * We certainly don't have any good explanation of their work, though a quick Google proves both men exist. The anon user who added them has a history of editing articles about Brunel University, so I suspect there might be some exaggeration of their importance going on.  I would suggest 'remove until verified', myself, about the importance of their work. &mdash;Morven 16:49, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

Buy Surely. . . Brunel University produces the finest industrial Designers of this generation. Period. Surely them two course directors, of which the graduates of Brunel are their protegees sit at the top of the design tree. They help to design designers.

Never heard of Brunel University and from what I've seen online, it doesn't really strike me as the cream of the crop. I'd think it would be in Germany or Italy as they have produced the most influential designers in the world and I believe the only PhD programs in ID are in Germany. Honestly, I've not seen much in the design schools lately (I graduated in 1997) that makes me think there is really anything interesting going on in design schools, it's more what the industrial designer does with the education he or she has received than the education itself. ______

Please stop turning the discussion page for this article into a pissing contest. Nothing of value is being added with the mud slinging going on here. This reputation in the field of design stuff is utterly subjective. (a5y (talk) 15:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC))

A note on design in general
I am a firm believer that any human manufacture has an underlying language, and that fluency, or at least literacy, in that language is necessary to an elegant design, and so I ponder these sentences:

Not in any way promoting Brunel University, but I am an ex-graduate of Brunel University's Dept. Of Design, and I would challenge you to find any top UK based and US (for that matter)design consultancy that has not heard of at least Paul Turnock.
 * ex-graduate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petchboo (talk • contribs) 17:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Famous Industrial Designers or Architects?
I've noticed that many of the famous designers are more famous as architects. Groupius, Graves, and Mies works are better known in the world of architecture than industrial design. I propose moving them to "Famous architects" and/or adding dialouge about the cross-over between architecture and industrial and product design.

Thoughts?

WWW.MADEINBRUNEL.COM - sponsored by Virgin Atlantic and HSBC. Set to be the biggest and best undergraduate design show ever held in the UK. Brunel will prove that it has the most diverse and well rounded designers in the country!

Also - Paul Turnock worked for Conran and with Jonathan Ive

designers or architects?
I agree that several of those listed as 'famous industrial designers' are actually more famous as architects (and in some cases not very famous for their industrial design work). I suggest you move the following from designers to architects:

Fuller, Graves, Gropius, Jacobsen, Mies van der Rohe

Nigel Cross 11:42, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)

Several are famous both as architects and as industrial designers. Michael Graves, in particular, though he is certainly a famous architect, has created several iconic objects, notably the "Bird" kettle for Alessi and a wide variety of objects for Target. I see no reason not to have individuals like him listed in both places. --Macrakis 14:16, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'd disagree with the accolades for Graves. His "notable" tea kettle has a problem that the bird melts under normal circumstances and doesn't improve the overall design that has existed for centuries, it's only an aesthetic variation. As for his association with Target, quantity doesn't denote distinction, quality does. If we used the quantity figure, then people should look for some nameless engineers in China for distinction as they are "designing" more products than any of the designers around the world (I think the current figure is that only 2% of all products are "designed".)

Pictures
I've returned the iMac G4 picture, which was replaced with an iMac G5 picture a while back. Though I am the first to say the iMac G5 is an even better computer (in fact, I'm buying one soon), its design is not quite as novel or amazing. I think the iMac G4 is a better illustration of the potential of product design.


 * And I've had to do it again. I've thought of two more reasons.  First, sometimes it is better not to show the latest thing.  The iMac G4 isn't exactly old, but at least it's something you won't find on Apple's product pages.  Second, the latest picture shows the remote attached to the side and Front Row on the screen.  They clutter the picture and put the focus on the media software, which doesn't help us here.  —RadRafe 06:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

On the other hand, I'm sure there is a world of other products we can illustrate the article with. It is, after all, a rather general subject, encompassing everything from salt shakers to yachts. So I'd like to put out a call to find some more illustrations. If you see a picture of another amazingly well-designed product—preferably one that doesn't have to do with computers—consider adding it to the article. —RadRafe 12:32, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Photos, please
I believe that this subject in particular would benefit from a photo. If there is some type of product that is rather recognizable (such as an Apple computer or perhaps an OXO product), it would demonstrate what Industrial Design is largely about. - Eptin 02:41, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that we could use a photo. It may help to divide Industrial design into a few categories (yikes!) and find a few products or items that best represent those aspects of design. I would also be pleased if we could find things that are clearly good examples of design but also objects that give a reader the sense that not just computers and stereo's are designed, but a wide range of things that we may not ever considered as being "Designed". I might suggest for starters (not married to these examples)


 * The First Macintosh Computer, clearly a fantastic combination of usability and engineering.(Classic Product Design that has a long reach)
 * Some fancy piece of modern furniture. Jean Prouve? (Really fantastic and simple furniture. Maybe there is a more 'world changing' piece than jean prouve)
 * Something absurd from someone like Marti Guixe or a thing from Droog (Something Silly with a low amount of utility)
 * that Kidney transplant thing from Ideo. (New Slick Plasticy stuff)
 * Some fantastic museum exhibit? Boston Museum of Science?

Am I on the right track here or am I way off? --Benjicohn 23:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I really dislike the two pictures currently shown with this article, they show more art then industrial design; this is why: they are once-off or small-scale products!! Industrial design is closer related to mass-production than art-products. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.198.151.130 (talk) 10:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What makes a 'Notable Designer'?
Someone (84.56.14.8) has added Konstantin Grcic to the list of 'notable designers'. I agree he may be an interesting and to some degree a successful designer - but 'notable'?? Who decides this. Whoever you are 84.56.14.8, you should identify yourself and explain. I note that your contributions have all been on Konstantin Grcic. Are you really Konstantin Grcic? You certainly don't seem to be an objective contributor.

I wouldn't list many of the architects as industrial designers as most don't even meet the meaning of industrial design that was postulated at the beginning of the listing, "applied art whereby the aesthetics and usability of products may be improved". I'm also not sure why product design is separated as the only sub-category as furniture, automotive, user-interface, etc. are as equally important given the relatively small number of products that are actually designed versus the other categories which have a much higher proportion of designed attributes.

Notable? list of designers
Let's add them to the category designers or industrial designers or architects but not in this article... I think we must delete the list and write about the main subject wich in industrial design... history... styles etc... what do you think ?Juan Scott 16:52, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Konstnatin Gricci is without a doubt one of the most notable designers in europe.

Design in the US?
This section is not only "not up to standards" but not very particular to the US. I enjoy the examination of Economics and Marketings influence in the design world, but this is pretty general and should be covered in its owns section, such as "Economics and Marketing of Design" not just the US. --Benjicohn 23:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Country-specific sections removal
I removed country-specific sections (US & Canada) because this wikipedia is not based on those two countries. If both are allowed, then we will have hundreds more sections from each country in the world. Please make an encyclopaedia about the subject, i.e. Industrial design in general. I removed also some country-specific organization external links. Only international association is preferred, except if the link is deep linked into a specific article about the subject. Thanks. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh forget, and also UK section. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Introduction length
I just added an "intro length" tag to the article. Currently, the introduction seems to be longer than all of the rest of the article combined. With an article this size, I would prefer the introduction to be a few key sentences in a single paragraph. Lisatwo 16:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Hangar chair? That's the picture?
That seems like a kind of silly picture to me, and not at all representative of how industrial design benefits us. It seems like a useless "improvement" to me.

What if instead we got a picture of, say, the Eames chairs? Or a nice toaster or something? Something that actually makes the reader interested, and promotes the validity of the subject of the article. I don't mean to sound like I jerk here, and I hope I don't.

But it seems to me that there are lots of other pictures we could put up there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.157.150.48 (talk) 21:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC) Indeed, the current pictures (hangar chair and what appears to be a plastic gun) are quite terrible. I'm with you on the toaster.Smilesfozwood (talk) 20:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

This is a test to see how quickly Wikipedia is updated
79.180.101.193 (talk) 02:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Decent history section needed
Could some sort of specialist of these things elaborate on the (pre)-history of ID. That would be worthwhile, even more so if you look at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Industrial_design. Thanks, -- AlainR345  Techno-Wiki-Geek  16:45, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I'm just setting up a proper discussion forum here, as recommended by WP:MERGE. I'll also point out that there has been some relevant discussion at Talk:Product design. --Reify-tech (talk) 16:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)