Talk:Industrial metal/Archive 2

rammstein
Rammstein can belong to both Industrial rock and metal because their earlier work is more industrial metal while the two current albums(Reise, Reise and Rosenrot) are much more softer than the first 3 albums(with the occasional heavy).

NDW is the technical term for artists such as Rammstein, Megaherz, Oomph, Unheilig, etc however, for the purpose of increasing their popularity to non-Germans and to make it much more simpler, these artists should remain in Industrial Metal(or both)

And also, those 4 artists I just mentioned belong in both industrial rock/metal because of the often changing style of their music. Oomph in the earlier days was more industrial, constant use of drum machines, less guitar. Now they are much more mainstream metal. Unheilig/Eisbrecher should remain on both because of their heavier and softer songs(though mostly soft). However it's quite known now that the majority of hardcore Rammstein fans ALSO enjoy bands such as Unheilig, Oomph, etc so putting them in the same genre can help bring fans to those bands who wish to relate to Rammstein.


 * Rammstein use elements of industrial metal, nothing more... but their music is definitely no pure industrial metal or industrial rock.

Industrial Metal is not their primary genre, Neue Deutsche Härte is. Rammstein is far from Rock and just based on a single Album which is different from their other work does not justify reclassifying them. Also, Rosenrot is nothing like rock, case in point: Zerstören, Benzin, Mann Gegen Mann etc. --General Jazza (talk) 19:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

MDFMK?
Why arent they on here? MDFMK was KMFDM's more guitar driven side. They should definitely be added to this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.84.127.30 (talk) 01:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Ulver
Ulver's not even close to industrial metal. Sure, their early stuff was metal enough and their later stuff has a decidedly industrial feel to it, but there's no middle ground to them.

Eh because, they are mostly not Industrial metal. They recently had played an Electro music and Experimental Trance, but nothing nearly Industrial. Industrial, do not meaning all Electronic type of music.

Want to just remove the artists section?
You know, I'd say over 95% of the edits to this page are adding or removing artists to the page. I'm personally getting tired of the complaints about it (yes, I'll admit it: I was one who added and removed a couple of times, however). Should we just get rid of the section all-together?
 * Enfestid 03:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Kill 'em all. Or create the List of industrial metal artists as a new trashcan. --~Menorrhea 05:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not going to remove the section right away. I'll give it a couple of days (probably until Friday or so) just to let everyone voice their opinion so we can come to a consensus.
 * Enfestid 05:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Godflesh deletion
Who the fucking assfuck keeps deleting both Godflesh mention and reference!!??? I really understand to removing mention about too new and rather nu/alternative metal-driven bands like Static X or Slipknot (or even KoRn, who actually were even once mentioned on this article) who actually has anything to do with the whole of Industrial metal at all, but removing very crucial bands like Godflesh is one of the most retarded or moronised thought. E.T.O.S 12:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Sales & Awards
I've recently finished the Industrial Metal: Sales & Awards page. It contains Nielsen Soundscans, Grammy nominations & awards, platinum & gold certifications, ect anything pertaining Industrial Rock / Metal bands. I'm up for putting a section on the main page, with a template redirecting the Wikipedia reader in case he's interested in that sort of information.

Anyone against that?

Musicaindustrial 15:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)i AM.


 * I am, if completely unneeded. 69.249.253.77 04:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * And why are you against it? Musicaindustrial 17:03, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This Page Needs Further Editing

 * It is great that Chrome and Killing Joke are mentioned as post-punk predecessors to Industrial Metal, but what about early PIL? And The Swans? And Laibach?


 * And what is Joy Division doing here? They belong with the Goth Rock crowd - Siouxsie & the Banshees, Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, etc. I've only known two Industrial Metal musicians 'til this day who have mentioned Joy Division as an influence: Dino Cazares (Fear Factory) and Justin Broadrick (Godflesh). That's two out of thousands, folks.


 * And why is Godflesh missing from this page? They were the co-creators of Industrial Metal; their self-titled EP came out the same year as Ministry's The Land of Rape and Honey.

Furthermore, it's a little strange mentioning Pitchshifter but omitting Godflesh at the same time... Early Pitchshifter was practically a Godflesh clone.


 * And what about Nu Metal-tinged Industrial Metal bands like Celldweller and Spineshank?


 * Also missing from this page is the european Cyber-Metal (The Kovenant, Deathstars, Malmonde) subgenre.

Musicaindustrial 17:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Brevity is Beautiful
Ah, this article is refreshing after hacking through the drivel that constitutes the industrial rock article. 58.107.202.215 04:48, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge
There is no difference between the two terms. No can show a difference and satisfy WP:OR, WP:RS, or WP:V. To prevent a forked discussion the topic should be discussed at Talk:Industrial rock. Ridernyc (talk) 13:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

You can't prove there is no difference or that there is a difference. So it stays separate. I'm removing the tag anyway. Nineinchsin (talk) 17:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Testify - You Gotta Have Brains... (1993).ogg
Image:Testify - You Gotta Have Brains... (1993).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:48, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sielwolf - Verstärker zerstört (1993).ogg
Image:Sielwolf - Verstärker zerstört (1993).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 10:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fracture - Epicentre (1998).ogg
Image:Fracture - Epicentre (1998).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Old Lady Drivers - Marzuraan (1991).ogg
Image:Old Lady Drivers - Marzuraan (1991).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Cyber Metal
Below is an alternative version to the "Cyber Metal" section. I'll clean it up later:

"Cyber-metal" was supposedly coined by Norwegian outfit The Kovenant (no relation Swedish futurepop trio Covenant). Kovenant started out as a black metal band (In Times Before the Light, 1997), changed their sound to "black-prog-metal" (?) (Nexus Polaris, 1998) and finally found their voice on the third offering, Animatronic (1999). This is the album when they re-christen themselves as "cyber-metal". The Kovenant's musical blueprint was later followed by a handful of European metal bands, such as Zeromancer, Deathstars , Malmonde and Psionic. Though they admit being influenced by North-American acts such White Zombie, Marilyn Manson and NIN, The Kovenant's "Cyber-metal" reveals iself different from the American industrial metal fare. It's "electronic" side draws from both European electronica - The Prodigy is an admitted influence - and the 1980s synthpop artists they admire, such as A-ha, Duran Duran and Depeche Mode. As Kovenant themselves ironically put it: "We're more interested in becoming electronic rather than industrial - less distorted and [nicer]".

Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hip-Hop & Industrial Metal
The following are some stuff I've written some time ago, regarding the connection between both genres...

Trent Reznor did a remix for "Victory", which was released as a B-side for this song's 1998 single. Sean Combs also released a rock remix of "It's All about the Benjamins", a version that featured the vocal talents of Rob Zombie. This version had its own music video, directed by Spike Jonze, which was nominated for "Best Video Of The Year" on MTV Video Music Awards in 1998.

Croatian rapper Zlatko Hukic, a.k.a. Marz, has long ties with Chicago's industrial metal scene. He worked as an engineer in Ministry's Filth Pig (1996), and later on played guitar in Dark Side of the Spoon (1999). He left the band to pursue his own project, Marz, which featured Ministry accolytes Rey Washam and Louis Svitek. His debut, Lung Fu Mo She (1999), was released by E-Magine Records.

Trent Reznor did a remix for N*E*R*D, a Neptunes side-project. The track in question was "Lapdance", renamed "Lapdance (Nine Inch Nails Remix)". Said Pharrell Williams of the Nine Inch Nails frontman: "It was a pleasure meeting Trent, and I was very excited to know our music reached the likes of someone of his stature".

Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a much closer relationship between hip-hop and industrial metal in the industrial hip-hop scene -- Godflesh, Scorn, Ice, and Techno Animal in particular. Aryder779 (talk) 16:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

More about Death Metal & Industrial
More stuff...

Napalm Death members could also be spotted in various occasions sporting industrial metal-related merchandize: bass player Shane Embury wearing a Young Gods T-shirt, ex-drummer Mick Harris wearing Ministry Ts and guitarrist Mitch Harris had NIN stickers plastered over his instrument. Godflesh is also an inspiration for the band. The last track of Utopia Banished (1992), "Contemptuous", is alledgedly inspired by Justin Broadrick's group. Napalm Death also did live renditions of "Avalanche Master Song"; a taped performance of their cover version is included the second disc of Noise for Music's Sake (2003).

Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Examples of industrial metal
Guys, let's establish an objective criteria for this list. My 1st proposition is to limit the inclusion to bands that have achieved at least one music certification (gold, silver, platinum, whatever). That would produce a short list: Fear Factory, Ministry, Oomph!, Orgy, Rammstein, early Rob Zombie solos albums, Stabbing Westward, Static-X and White Zombie (in their mid-1990s period). To my mind other artists could be added to this list, such as Nine Inch Nails, Filter and Marilyn Manson, but other editors might object to their inclusion... Their status as "Industrial Metal" should be discussed. Musicaindustrial (talk) 11:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm going ahead with my suggestions. Any disagreements, please state them on this section. Musicaindustrial (talk) 01:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Section about nu metal
Most nu metal acts have avoided the social commentary and the normally politically-charged lyrics of industrial music, replacing them with what british journalist Tommy Udo (2002) called "white suburban kid blues" (p. 19) - self-centered narratives. Musicaindustrial (talk) 23:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

"Decline in America" section should be cut
I propose that this section be removed, as much of it is unsourced conjecture, and it's rather dated and irrelevant at this point. Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson are clearly still quite popular in the mainstream, so there's no real reason to make mention of the brief dip in excitement surrounding them. Aryder779 (talk) 15:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)