Talk:Infinite Crisis/Archive 1

This archive page covers approximately the dates between July 2005-October 2005.

Uncategorized comments
What's the point of having so much detail about each miniseries? They don't even deserve a separate section each, when thinking about the big picture (the actual Crisis). I'm not as versed in Crisislore as the guys who actually wrote the "summaries" (I am not reading the books), but I think it shouldn't be made such a big thing. My suggestion:

Infinite Crisis blah blah blah big event, blah blah blah DC Comics, bla blah blah 80's Crisis. -Contents-:
 * 1) Countdown to Infinite Crisis: blah blah blah, special issue, blah blah blah miniseries blah blah corners of the DC Universe.
 * 2) Miniseries 1
 * 3) Miniseries 2
 * 4) Miniseries 3
 * 5) Miniseries 4
 * 6) Other "tie-ins" and such (no ultimately complete issue listing, please)
 * 7) (Actual) Crisis (nothing to be written about it yet, though, except maybe posting the available cover for issue #1, due October 2005)
 * 8) Aftermath (can't see the future, nothing to write yet).

It's only a format suggestion. I'm not reading the books, so feel free to consider me unbiased or just plain ignorant of the article matter. Someone who knows better, please give this thing proper order. And make the article accesible and brief. Something that shouldn't be read as advertisement.

Xjc 02:34, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

I think the very existence of entries like this demonstrates what a joke wikipedia is. --Blue Spider 13:12, 14 July 2005
 * Care to expand upon why you think this shouldn't be here? 23skidoo 17:32, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't want to, but I will. I believe that this series is just something that will be published for a market that's barely an actual percentage of a mass market or pop culture market, have a temporary effect within the realm of comic books and despite hype likely have as much long-term effect as most of the past DC crossover series, the ones I have in mind first being "Genesis", "Day of Judgement", and "Millenium".  I don't think it's notable and creating an entry for every single "summer event" series that tickles the sensitivities of comic nerds will just eat up space.  It's not likely it will stand the test of time. Having an entry like this is like altering the Superman wikipedia entry every three weeks to reflect whatever "change" is happening in his series.  Having an entry like this is almost similar to going to the entry for Lois Lane and announcing the character is dead after reading Superman 219.

This post deserves to be here simply because Wikipedia does have many entries like this. It should be here; it's one of many examples of why Wikipedia's relevence is in danger and has been.

If anything, perhaps wiki would be better off to create a seperate wiki comic book reference source entirely. --[User:Blue_Spider|Blue Spider]]

I think Articles like this are exactly what makes the Wiki Better than other Encyclopedias, not a joke. All Encyclopedias have articles on things like Strontium and the Isle of Man but only something like the Wiki can also cover such diverse topics as Numbers Stations and the Multiverse. Many people hold out the hope that the Wikipedia will eventually transcend regular encyclopedias and become more a storehouse of all available human knowledge(lofty goal).Delzuma 15:09, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Am I the only person who thinks that the text on the spin-off mini-series should be separate pages, heavily linked from this page? --Sfeldon 16:23, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

The cleanup notice is because large portions of this read like a compliation of promo quotes rather than an actual article - SoM 17:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I did some stuff. Made the plot summaries into actual summaries and not plot synopses (two different things). It probably needs some spelling checked and grammar fixed. Or you can just revert it (if you liked the earlier monstrosity). I also removed all but the first issues of the countdown books from the gallery (we don't need to see every cover and tie-in fer chrissake). and it really should be called Countdown to Infinite Crisis, since Infinite Crisis hasn't even started yet. i left the Prelude to Infinite crisis section, but removed the panel list. that should be in a page just for prelude (which i don't feel like creating at the moment) - not logged in, but this is runciblerabbit 01:30, 21 July 2005

Does this page not need to be merged with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countdown_to_Infinite_Crisis

Charles Knight

Further to my suggestion (and notice) to merge the pages - it seem that the above page has been wiped out of existance and a redirect placed to here???? None of the copy provided seems to have carried over? That is a shame as I felt that some of the material there was better. I can see no evidence of it being merged in. - Charles Knight
 * The content still exists. Just check the history of the Countdown to Infinite Crisis article and you can cut-and-paste to your heart's content. (To bypass the redirect, just click on the wikilink on the line "Redirected from x"). 23skidoo 03:35, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Batman: Gotham Knights #65 under Villains United needs to be changed to issue # 66

Cover gallery
We can get rid of the cover gallery, neh? It takes up a lot of space and I think it adds to the supposed adverisement-aura this article has. KramarDanIkabu 03:07, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Is Prelude to Infinite Crisis a trade paperback? The store I usually go to had it in TPB section rather than normal comic books; if so we should replace "96 page special" with "96 page trade paperback". KramarDanIkabu 00:00, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Tie In List
The similar page for House of M has a section for tie-in issues to the series. I was thinking of starting such a listing for this so that things like the Sacrifice storyline were listed. It could also be useful for reference if you are trying to pick up all of the tie ins... I am just talking a listing of titles and issue numbers not summaries....

Guess I am wondering if there is any opinions of the formatting of the list. I was figuring a bulleted list: etc... In alphabetical order. I figure chronological order would get a bit too difficult with series that overlap. I am going to get started on it a bit later this week but I was wondering if anyone had any comments on what the list should look like...
 * O.M.A.C. Project 1-6
 * Wonder Woman 214, 219
 * That actually was here before it was deleted because it was getting too large. KramarDanIkabu 16:35, 9 August 2005 (UTC)


 * It'd be easier to link directly to the DC Comics website, they keep a running tally of tie-ins and the like. Fastbak77 05:25, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Where? Certianly not at Crisis Counseling, they delete that every week... --AjaxSerix 13:38, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

It is because of these Tie-In lists that articles get the advertisement template. This whole Crisis stunt is a "universe spanning" one, meaning virtually every title from the publisher is either a tie-in issue or a connected story. And this is only the "Countdown", you know. The tie-in list will be long and tiresome, and it will lead to the stagnation of that damn template, years after the last issue of 52 hits the streets. So my suggestion is this: a link to another site with a complete tie-in list. I still think the whole article should be brought to shorter, better explanations (instead of a "summary" of whatever happens in every weekly miniseries title).

Everyone seems to be talking and no one doing. I believe all the info is valuble but it is true the article is too long and will only grow as infinite crisis is still in the prelude phase. Therefore I have started splitting plot summaries of related miniseries into their own articles leaving just brief summaries in the main article - Waza

Ok I did some Doing
Hope I didn't step on too many peoples toes. I just trimmed everything up a bit and reformatted the Tie In Lists for the Mini's. I think once the plot summaries started to go they all needed to go because it was very unbalanced. The links to the articles on the mini's are also now just linked in the text of the summary as they should be... done for now. --AjaxSerix 15:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Good start. It would have been nice to see the old info put into articles under the names of the miniseries. But this is starting to get back to a better size article particularly with the main miniseries starting soon Waza

I changed the "sequel in name at least" part. We know now it will be a direct sequel.

Images
With, eventually, 14 cover images to deal with here, I think we obviously need to be selective. I think the Lee and Perez covers to Issue #1 are the two best choices. The Lee cover was the main promotional image, and seems to me a shoo-in, and I the Perez cover has been very widely praised. I certainly don't think we should start tossing up promotional covers to future issues. If there are any major covers like the Death of Supergirl Crisis cover, we can think about adding those, but for now I think the two #1s are going to turn out to be the best covers to choose. Snowspinner 19:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

/* Plot Summary */
uhh yeah...i just registered...getting to know all this extra crap...sorry for the overkill...and the issue 2 cover, but that is the real issue 2 cover just so you know...it's already uploaded and ready for the next issue...i still think it needs a better plot summary though, more happened then just that and it doesn't even mention the freedom fighters at all.


 * No problem, and welcome to Wikipedia. It's tough to put a good summary without knowing what happens in the remaining six issues, so I imagine that section will get a lot of revisiting. The freedom fighters are probably worth adding, though - I'll go get that in there. As for the cover, I know it's the real cover, but I'd prefer to have it with the logo and the like - it's more justifiably fair use, for one thing. That said, I don't think we want both covers of every issue. I'd go with, as I said above, the two covers from issue #1, and then any particularly iconic covers afterwards. Snowspinner 20:46, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

that sounds good to me...i do think that editorial thing at the bottom should go...i know the speculation thing was a little stupid but if it were done the right way it would be better for people who want to know what might happen without going to look at a message board full of unknown stuff...this is just an idea...it's your baby...oh and the cover thing i don't think you need both for the first one, i think you should just choose the best one, i believe the perez cover is the best for issue one but that could be different for issue two and every issue after...but just one per issue at least...and possibly make countdown it's own thing instead of have it there once things get going...either way i like it and i look to it for good info all the time.


 * I think seven covers is going to be a lot, honestly, and I think the Lee cover, while I'm not as fond of it as the Perez cover, was the one used to advertise it, and so is more notable on those grounds. As for the editorial section, I think it's important because IC hasn't just been a big evet - it's marked a real editorial shift in DC, and has been in planning much longer than many similar events. That's something that sets it apart from, say, Our Worlds at War. Snowspinner 21:09, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I lightly edited the plot summary to issue 1: the sentence about the Freedom fighters left unclear who actually took the beating--it sounded like the SSOSVs lost the fight. Also, the final sentence made it sound as if the E-2 Lois left with the 3 men. One last thing: shouldn't there be a spoiler warning up at the top of the article, which divulges the first issue's big secret? --Galliaz 19:38, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Snowspinner: I like the changes you made (and agree about LL). Two grammar/spelling errors have crept in: (1) sentence three starts with the word "This"; it should be "The"; and (2) "except" is misspelled as "eexcept".--Galliaz 19:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Go ahead and fix my idiocy. Also, is there not a spoiler warning at the top of the synopsis section anymore? Snowspinner 19:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll fix 'em. The Plot Summary's is fine, it's got the spoiler warning, but there's no warning up top (at the start of the entry), and the second paragraph reveals the reappearance of Earth-2 Supes.--Galliaz 20:03, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * D'Oh! Missed the forrest for the trees.  The entry IS introduced by a massive spoiler warning.  Nevermind.--Galliaz 20:07, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Cheetah dead?
We currently have Cheetah on the list of dead - I'm not seeing that in the issue, though. Cheetah is still standing when Sinestro blasts Uncle Sam, and doesn't seem to appear again in the issue. So where does she go down? Or should we pull her from the list of dead? Snowspinner 21:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I pulled her, since she's solicited as appearing in the next Wonder Woman. Snowspinner 00:49, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Cheetah is dead as of issue #222 of Wonder Woman.
 * DyslexicDan


 * I am unconvinced that that ought be treated as a death and not a beating into unconsciousness. Phil Sandifer 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well I wasn't going to change anything and make sense to wait and seeDyslexicDan20:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Rucka has stated she is not dead over in his forums. --DrBat 00:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

52 or 52*
On the Newsarama interview with Geoff Johns, the title is listed as 52*. In Infinite Crisis, it's listed as 52. Any good bets on which one it is or explanation of the discrepency? Snowspinner 00:49, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I read in Wizard Magazine (#167; Sep 2005, p. 26) that the asterisk denotes that this is a working title. Presumably once they finalize the title it'll appear without an asterisk.--Galliaz 19:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * OK - I'll assume the announcement of 52 in the first issue of IC was them setting the title then. Snowspinner 21:01, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Just for completeness, I started a 52 page a while ago... now information is coming in, and I've also used it to reference the changes that will accompany "One Year Later..." Dyslexic agnostic 07:30, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Where to start
In an effort to curb continual inflation of this article, I propose that for the purposes of discussing Infinite Crisis, we declare that Infinite Crisis started with Countdown. Identity Crisis, Graduation Day, Adam Strange, etc are all important to it, and should be mentioned, but for the purposes of death tolls, related storylines, and the like, I think we should start with Countdown. Snowspinner 19:39, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Order of article
I moved the synopsis of IC back to the start of the article - since the article is about Infinite Crisis, the synopsis of that should come first - the background to Infinite Crisis is important to the subject, but since all of those series have their own articles, it's not as important to Infinite Crisis as Infinite Crisis itself. Snowspinner 19:39, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Uncle Sam Lives
(Only going to be live until Monday or so) notably and conspicuously excludes Uncle Sam from the list of dead, leading me to assume they're not done with him, or at least to want to hold off having him on the list of dead. Snowspinner 02:26, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Uncle Sam is a manifestation of the Spirit of America who uses a human as a host- sometimes a dead human. It's very unlikely that a physical attack would permanently destroy the Spirit. More likely, Uncle Sam will eventually return, in one form or another. This might even happen within IC, if the series does go along with the theme of Idealism thriumping over Antiheroism, as has been promised by some DC people. Wilfredo Martinez 03:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Images Redux
Aesthetically, the actual scans show the logo, are clearly comic covers, match the Countdown cover, and look like what someone not familiar with comics expects a comic cover to look like.

Legally, they are lower resolution, which helps with fair use claims. Snowspinner 15:53, 23 October 2005 (UTC)