Talk:Information/Archive 1

Definition of information?
Definition: A meaningful reply to a question. Not to be nitpicky, but the question itself is information, too, and sometimes it's harder to find the right question than to find the right answer. It would be nice if information would be as simple to define, but a proper definition of the word might actually be one of the hardest scientific questions of our time. Information theory is still fairly isolated from the rest of physical theory, sort of like a ghost-matter division. Wikipedia can't solve scientific problems, only report their current state, so we should try to come up with attributed concepts of information here. --Eloquence 12:36 Nov 9, 2002 (UTC)


 * This definition has a flaw - information not always is a meaningful reply to a question. I suggest the following definition. "Information is data about entities.", more precisely, definition would be "Information is data or a datum which describes entities, an entity or a part of it, in relation to other entities like factual objects, actual positions and/or imaginary constructs like ideas, plans, goals, etc." -Inyuki 20:35, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Sorry to interrupt :-) I agree with almost all definitions of Information I have seen here (and elsewhere) and all of the ideas of those who have argued over those definitions. But I see a different solution. Instead of arguing about the correct definition, why not consider that virtually all definitions (despite apparent contradictions) are correct. Like blind men describing an elephant (each arrives at a different description). What I seek is the elephant itself. In terms of Physics we know what matter and energy are but we really don't have a good idea of what information is. Can we all agree that it is not either of those and proceed from there? I want a view of Information that can be applied in Psychology and Computer Science and Physics and everywhere else. One without contradictions or paradoxes (to the extent this is possible). One that is as clear as those of matter and energy. And I really welcome direct feedback (hanramo@hotmail.com). I think this is the MOST IMPORTANT and OVERLOOKED problem in science today. Biology (a field I follow avidly) is screaming out for a unified and general understanding of information. As is physics. --Ramobear 20:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought I could not make contribution according to the pre-existing format, though the format was interesting. I moved it to below, so that others can work on it and replace my contribution, or merge with it.

Tomos

Definition
Information can simply be defined as " The Processed data." Data is input into an information system which process that data and the output is obviously an information.

History of the term information .........

Statistical view Information transmission has been studied from a statistical and coding viewpoint by Claude E. Shannon.

Computer science view Data that is put into a context.

Linguistic view Context written to a format of a particular character base. .......

Psychological view Cognitive integration of thought. .......

Economic view Business information etc.

I am new to wiki and wikipedia, but am very interested in concepts of information. A new field of inquiry for this is called Philosophy of Information, dealing with the nature and meaning of information. I am slowly compiling a bibliography of sources, by authors such as Floridi, Herold, Machlup, and so forth. Should wikipedia entries for this go on this page or should a new page under the Philosophy category be added? See also http://orgs.unt.edu/asis/POI.htm

Jrcastledine

Here is something to absorb into your studies. Imagine a blind man about to step off the pavement into a roadway and a racing cyclist is coming up fast, relatively quiet, head down. Somebody shouts in Swahili, "Don't cross there is a bicycle coming". Unfortunately the blind man does not understand Swahili.

Point : One man's information is another man's noise.


 * I'd take that as saying; noise is information still! Not something we can simply explain
 * away as such an individual thing. We all constantly share and interact with it, no matt-
 * er if "one man's information is another man's noise", it remains information. There  are
 * no exceptions then. Can all be information then?  God, I'm beginning to sound like a bad
 * mid-nineties internet thriller...
 * TAPSELL
 * But I think finding a "truth" to what role information play's in our perception of the w-
 * orld is one of the most important questions I ask myself before I go to sleep every night

Truth
E.g. one dimension is "truth" (some definitions of "information" require that a message must contain a truthful message before it can be said to convey information); - Peak (from User talk:Bensaccount)

Information does not have to be true. Information quite often doesn't correspond with reality. Bensaccount 13:30, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The argument you would make is "is untrue information still information?". The answer is yes, and I can give many examples to prove it if you want me to. Bensaccount 13:33, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[Peak:] You are missing the point. "Information" has multiple meanings. (Have you actually really understood the article yet?) One of the primary meanings is related to the idea of adding to someone's knowledge. One has to employ some rather devious arguments to get from a false message to an increase in knowledge. Ergo back we go. Peak 16:17, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No you are out of context. Information is not knowledge. When relating to something or somebody information is knowledge. This information can be untrue, yet still be information. Bensaccount 16:23, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Also, do you know what a circular definition is? Bensaccount 17:00, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[DavidCary:] I think I would like to see a couple of examples of information in the form of false facts. I think I agree with Peak. I agree that some people use "information" to refer to true facts, while others use it to refer to any sort of message, true or not. So both definitions need to be mentioned in the article.


 * Fahrenheit 9/11 - there is your example. Lots of information in that movie, very little truth.  KeyStroke 17:15, 2004 Oct 19 (UTC)

Unclear sentence
There is a sentence in the Information is not data paragraph that says (seemingly out of nowhere)
 * "This is why a computer will calculate the average employee number even though it is meaningless"

Was there some context to this that I missed? What is this "average employee number" that is mentioned? Doesn't make sense to me, but then again, I could be missing something... kostmo 05:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Negentropy
Negentropy is an incorrect near synonym for information. It is supposedly the opposite of the thermodynamic property entropy. Bensaccount 23:01, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Information and Physics
Perhaps the article should explain the relationship a bit more?

Information is supposedly some kind of superficial state existing within our minds, but apparently knowledge and information can be affected by quantum physics, and speed of transmission cannot exceed the speed of light, even if it were procuring information from clues that are in space, very far apart.

There is also the theory that emerges in the field of quantum computing that destroying information yields heat, (ie. merging two paths which have values of 1 and zero each, into a single path of 1) as though information is like energy, not a mere recognition of facts, nor the state of our minds. Then there is information entropy, as well.

What exactly IS information then? Why would it be affected by physics if it was just a superficial state? And if it isn't superficial, it can't be a mere message, pattern or sensory input, now can it?

Would anyone with expertise on this write about this a bit more?


 * I put in a few lines which might clarify things, including a link to Maxwells demon. I took out the text about interference and quantum computers as I don't think it is the heat generated that causes interference, but simply that a quantum operation has to be reversible (in other words information cannot be lost), otherwise it stops being a quantum operation. That is why AND gates are not permitted. Entropy and heat generation of AND gates are seperate non-quantum ideas, though the two concepts are closely linked. Couldn't think of a way to put this clearly, so I took the easy way out and left it for the Quantum computer page to explain.
 * I also put in a reference to Alg Inf Theory alongside shannon theory, but if the "Measuring information" section is a part of "Information as a message" rather than a seperate section this is probably out of place. Rattle 00:26, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Do we need an article on Bekenstein bound, or is the brief mention in other wikipedia articles ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Bekenstein&fulltext=Search ) sufficient ?

Information, matter and energy
Tom Stonier envisions information to be a property of the universe, as real a property as matter and energy. See "Information and the Internal Structure of the Universe”, Springer, London, 1990,, , .... --Michal Jurosz

Vandalism?
My recent edit on this article was hardly vandalism...could you bring it directly up to me first?!

Information DOES have a relation with quantum physics, mind you. -- Natalinasmpf 19:33, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Etymology
Note: I am moving the section on the etymology of the word "information" in English from the article on "physical information" to this main article - it seems a more logical place for it. --Mpfrank, 6/14/05

Communication
See Talk:Communication/Archive 1. Brian Jason Drake 08:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)