Talk:Infront Sports & Media/Archives/2013

Update
Dear Wikipedia colleagues,

I am updating this page in-line with recent news released in respect to the company ownership using factual updates taken from the Infront Sports & Media website. Additionally, I am providing verifiable links as references to credible on-line media in support of my edits so as to keep this article up-to-date, factually correct and neutral. Clnatinfront (talk) 12:26, 7 February 2012 (UTC)]]

Update Proposal Feb 2013
Dear Wikipedia colleagues,

I would like to propose further changes to this article as some of the information contained in the current version of the article is now incorrect / out of date. I have attempted a draft update on my User Page and would greatly appreciate assistance. Links and references to articles to validate all the proposed amendments are enclosed. However, I also need some support with the references section and ordering now that I have inserted new links and citations. Very grateful for help or recommendations for improving the article further.

This is the link to my User Page where I have drafted the suggested edit. --HablasESport!121 (talk) 12:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Feedback
Hi Hables. A few notes:
 * Please avoid all-caps in your headings; all-caps means you're yelling, but I don't think you intend to
 * You wanted as oppose to  . Edit Request is for protected pages, while request edit is for COI
 * Since Infront is also a marketing firm, Waggener Edstrom is a good example to look at, since it has been brought up to the GA ("Good Article") designation.

Ok back to the article. I appreciate you using Request Edit and I'm not beating up on you at all, just offering some (hopefully useful) advice and explanations. CorporateM (Talk) 14:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We need neutral sub-heads. Just as we don't like Controversy sub-heads, because they are negative, an Awards sub-head is not good either. Any awards should be included in a Services section and only if the awards are notable. Notability can be established if the award has its own Wikipedia page, was included in profile stories on the company, or through other common sense means to establish their significance. For example, I usually avoid awards that have 100 winners by default, because it is never significant to be 1 of 100 and I would avoid any award that I know is pay-for-play.
 * "this became controversial" is not neutral in that it reflects poorly on you when it shouldn't, because "controversy" has negative connotations. What made it controversial?
 * The Notable Projects should include summaries and examples, as oppose to every campaign that is verifiable. Making this section overly long and detailed is promotional. I have trimmed it in order to address the COI tag. Just like awards, the notability of a specific campaign to warrant inclusion can be found in profile stories on the firm and other means, but we have to be selective on including the most important projects as examples, instead of everything that is verifiable.
 * It should have a Services section; where possible we should use secondary sources, but I often use some primary sources where nothing secondary is available, especially to describe the company's organizational structure, which is useful to us, but not to the media. This is not promotional when done right - on the contrary, readers want to know what the company sells. The Waggener Edstrom article might serve as a good example.
 * Can we get the logo on a transparent background?
 * The lead should summarize the article with a little bit from each section, so History should go in there.

Response to Feedback
I represent the company in a communications capacity and I am therefore a trustworthy source of information for this page. This page now no longer represents the major activities of the company and still contains information that is factually incorrect and was included in my suggested revision. I have therefore removed the factually incorrect information directly. I hope this acceptable. I very much appreciate the feedback in terms of improving the article and will endeavour to work on the recommended improvements in liaison with CorporateM. Thank you --HablasESport!121 (talk) 16:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * No I am sorry but the only trustworthy sources are third party reliable sources, see WP:RS. Please provide such sources to support your changes and please refrain from editing the article - you should request changes here, with sources, so they can be reviewed first. Thanks.--ukexpat (talk) 16:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * He was actually removing unsourced, positive information, which I would support. NOTBUREAU, common sense, IAR and all that. But Hables, for the future, saying you are a trustworthy source because you are a PR person for the company will always raise some hairs around here. :-D


 * Feel free to ping me when you have a second draft. CorporateM (Talk) 17:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I greatly appreciate the support and guidance from both and will work accordingly to prepare something in line with recommendations provided.--HablasESport!121 (talk) 17:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Dear Colleagues,

Please find a revised version of this section to the article below that has been reviewed and I would greatly appreciate support with publishing on the Infront Sports & Media page. The current information is out of date, incomplete and inaccurate in places. I am working as guided by recent feedback on the article and in view of all Wikipedia regulations. Support is very much appreciated. --HablasESport!121 (talk) 09:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Notable work
Infront Sports & Media represents six of the seven Olympic winter sport federations, including the IIHF for ice hockey and the IBU for biathlon. It also manages media and/or marketing rights to most of the FIS World Cup events. In summer sports, Infront started supporting mass participation and endurance sports in 2011, including Ironman events and the UCI World Championships in cycling. It is also a partner for the EHF EURO in handball and the CEV European Championships in Volleyball. In China, Infront represents the CBA League and the national team, Team China Basketball.

In football, Infront has supported the FIFA World Cup since 2002. It distributes the Asian media rights and manages the host broadcast production. In 2011, Transparency International asked Fifa to be more open about possible conflicts of interest, when it was discovered that the President of Infront was a nephew to the President of Fifa, Sepp Blatter. Fifa said Blatter was not involved in awarding the deal to Infront. Infront also works with the German Football Association (DFB) and the Italian Lega Serie A.

Services
Infront Sports & Media supports sports rights holders with global media rights distribution, marketing concepts and sponsorship sales for sporting events as well as media production (host broadcasting, post production and archive management). The subsidiary Host Broadcast Services has produced the television and radio signals for the FIFA World Cup since 2002 amongst other international events. Infront also provides hospitality and catering, stadium advertising, event management and other related services.

Infront Sports & Media consists of subsidiaries specialising in different geographic regions (e.g. China, Germany, Italy) as well as services (e.g. Infront Hospitality Management and Football Media Services).

--HablasESport!121 (talk) 16:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Added with tweaks. There is some repetition with the Services and Notable work sections RE HBS/FIFA, but I'm not sure how to address. I took out "globally." Nice work. CorporateM (Talk) 20:27, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Dear Colleagues – I’d like to extend appreciation once again for the support with this page. Thanks for your 'tweaks' I will address the repetition and put out another edit request in due course. If you need support with any of the good work you do to keep PR input honourable on Wikipedia then do let me know. Working with integrity is crucial for our industry and in the UK the Institute of Public Relations are working hard to provide PRs with guidelines - something that I feel should be embraced by the Wikipedia community. Please feel free to contact me on my Talk Page. --HablasESport!121 (talk) 13:03, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Dear Colleagues - I would once again like to propose some minor changes to this article that I believe will help to clarify on a few points. Firstly the opening sentence is slightly misleading on the main activities of the company, I would propose we revise the sentence to read as follows.


 * Infront Sports & Media is a sports marketing company based in Zug, Switzerland. The company handles the media and marketing rights for international sports events and federations and also provides sports services - such as advertising solutions, sponsorship implementation and hospitality.

In addition, the information on subsidiaries is incorrect. Perhaps we could revise as follows?


 * Infront Sports & Media operates from 20 different office locations divided into subsidiaries that specialise in various geographic regions (e.g. China, Germany, Italy) as well as services (e.g. Infront Hospitality Management and Football Media Services).

Support as always is much appreciated :-)

--HablasESport!121 (talk) 13:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ I added the number of locations to the infobox and I think the correction is now made, though not in the same way as proposed. It could use another sentence with some examples of subsidiaries (or perhaps this just needs to be clarified in the content already there). Also, it's not promotional for us to add a couple awards that are genuinely significant and included in profile stories on the company if any. But these need to be done thoughtfully. Thanks for enduring my collaboration and doing things the right way. CorporateM (Talk) 13:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Dear CorporateM

Many thanks for your contributions.

I’d like to raise the following points and suggest a few changes to the article.

1.The lead is far improved (thank you) but we should correct one point – the company was not established from a merger of CWL and Prisma but from KirchSportAG. The History section is correct but may I suggest we change the line to read; the company was established following the integration of CWL, Prisma and KirchSportAG? ✅

2.There are 20 offices but these do not ‘each’ operate as subsidiary. For example there are 7 offices in Germany all classified as Infront Germany, there are 2 offices in Italy etc. Perhaps it would be possible to correct this to something like; Infront has 20 offices operating in various geographic regions or operating internationally, worldwide etc? ✅}

3.In respect to your query about awards – In 2010 the Infront subsidiary HBS was awarded for the first ever media production of the FIFA World Cup event in 3D. This was a huge innovation and a first for both the international sports industry and broadcast industry. Perhaps this would be of interest to Wikipedia readership? - needs better sources. One is a press release and the other doesn't seem to mention Infront.

4.Finally, I wonder if it would be outside of COI limitations for me to insert wikilinks and links to external sources for the various events and organisations that are mentioned in the article - this I believe would add to the functionality of the page?
 * External links are often unwelcome, especially in the body, but there's little harm that could be done in Wikilinks, which is pointed out in WP:COI as a janitorial edit that we advise you make. CorporateM (Talk) 12:02, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for your continued input, advice and collaboration on this page.--HablasESport!121 (talk) 11:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi again,

I beg your pardon but I don't understand about the references. I appreciate one is a press release but the other two provided both mention HBS (the Infront subsidiary awarded) so I don't see why they need to mention Infront? It was HBS in its own right that received recognition. One is a link to the IBC - the organisation that awarded HBS. HBS is mentioned on the last line - http://www.ibc.org/page.cfm/link=330.

The other is a more technical piece that explains (in a case study style) the way it was achieved - http://www.live-production.tv/case-studies/sports/3d-production-fifa-world-cup%E2%84%A2-2010.html

I'll go in and do the Wikilinks in that case with your permission :-)

As always - much obliged. --HablasESport!121 (talk) 13:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ Sorry. I did a "Control F" for "Infront" and didn't think to look for it under a subsidiary name. I added it under Notable Work - looks like a good addition. CorporateM (Talk) 14:43, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Not a problem, much appreicate the support:-) I agree, it looks good in that section. Is there anything further you can recommend to help boost the rating of the article? Or further work you consider would be beneficial from your side? If so I will endeavor to improve further.--HablasESport!121 (talk) 16:02, 14 March 2013 (UTC)