Talk:Infront Sports & Media/Archives/2019

Request edit
I have a COI as an employee of Infront Sports & Media, the subject of this article. I'd request that an independent editor review the following Request Edits. I was advised by User:BC1278 as a paid consultant.Tennisstar1995 (talk) 08:07, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

1. In Infobox, change Type from "Sports & Media" to "Subsidiary, incorporated as an AG "

Why?

"Type" is not meant to mean "Category" - it's meant to specify the type of company. e.g. Inc., LLC, LLP, AG. See Sony Music for how to treat an independent subsidiary.

2. In Infobox, change "900" employees to "1000+ " employees.

This is more current and will remain viable for longer, as it doesn't need to be changed if the number of employees shifts up by a few hundred.
 * ✅ Barkeep49 (talk) 02:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

3. In lead, delete: "It represents all seven Olympic winter sport federations, several summer sport organizations and manages media rights for the FIS World Cup Events."

Why?

This is historical information that is no longer completely accurate. Recent stories such as here no longer mention this, as they would if it was current. As historical info, it should be in the History section but removed from the lead.
 * The LEAD should summarize the article. As the article is going to be experiencing a major revamp I would prefer to wait to see how it shakes out before attempting to rewrite the lead. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

4. In lead, delete: "It has 35 offices, which belong to different subsidiaries for geographic regions."

Why?

Out of date and duplicative of info in the Infobox and Services section.
 * ✅. I have changed the body to note 14 countries as that's what the website, which appears to be the supporting source, says. Given that this is removed from the body, I have removed it from the lead.

5. In History, delete: Infront Sports & Media was founded in October 2002 in order to create the television and radio broadcasts for the 2002 FIFA World Cup.

and replace with:

"Infront Sports & Media officially launched in 2003. "

Why?

The current language isn't accurate. The link is dead, so there's no source to support the statement. And the following (accurate) sentences, which state that the company was founded by the merger of two existing companies, contradicts the first sentence's assertion that the company was formed specifically for the 2002 FIFA World Cup. I've provided a RS with the accurate official launch date.
 * I can't read German, but the Google Translate version does seem to support 2002 - namely it's a 2002 source. It seems ot be saying that the company would be launched in 2003 but it's not enough for me to hang my hat on. The FIFA info is also supported by that source so I've retained it. The old source is available in the Internet Archive but doesn't mention Infront so it should be removed and I have done so and used the provided source. If this date of founding is wrong I'm surprised it wasn't corrected in the 2017 mass of requested edits. I also really don't know what to make of this in light of the Telegraph, which is generally thought of as a reliable source saying the company was 30 years old in 2011. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

6. In History, delete: "Infront's origins are in the football business, but in 2005 the company lost a majority of its FIFA business and subsequently diversified. Today the company is divided into Summer and Winter sports properties (in line with the Olympic differentiation) and also has dedicated Football, Endurance and Digital Production and Sports Solutions units. "

Why?

This cited source doesn't say this (that the company lost the Fifa business in 2005 or, the how the company is divided.) In fact, a story in The Guardian in 2015 says "Infront’s businesses include producing the World Cup TV broadcasts for Fifa through its subsidiary HBS" -- so the business was not lost in 2005. A 2011 story in The Telegraph says Infront managed "the 2014 FIFA World Cup and six out of seven Olympic winter sport federations." 
 * ✅ Barkeep49 (talk) 02:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

7. In History, after "...who sold the business to the Kirch Group."

move/insert the following (with edits and new content) from "Notable Works":

In football, Infront supported the FIFA World Cup starting in 2002. It distributes the Asian media rights and managed the host broadcast production. After managing the global sales for the 2006 World Cup, Infront lost the bid for the European television rights for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa. But it split the Asian rights for the World Cup in 2010 and 2014.

In 2011, Transparency International asked Fifa to be more open about possible conflicts of interest because the president of Infront was Philippe Blatter, the nephew of the President of Fifa, Sepp Blatter. Fifa said Sepp Blatter was not involved in awarding the deal to Infront. Infront also works with the German Football Association (DFB), the Italian Lega Serie A  and the Indonesia Super League.

Why?

Better organizational structure for article.

8. In History, add missing citation to: "Until 2011 it was owned by a consortium of shareholders.[citation needed]" This is the supporting citation:
 * ✔️ Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

9. In History - after the sentence ending "....reached an agreement to acquire the company" - add a new sentence: "At the time of the 2011 acquisition, Infront managed six of the seven Olympic Winter Sports Federations, the 2014 FIFA World Cup and about 120 sporting events. "

Why?

Provides an accurate snapshot of company History at a specific date.
 * as more promotional than informative. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

10. In Services, change these sentence: "Infront Sports & Media has 900 employees in 35 offices which are operated by several subsidiaries specializing in a geographic region as well as in specialized services.  "

to:

"Infront Sports & Media has more than 1000 employees and operates throughout the world. The company provides media production, media rights distribution, marketing and sponsorship sales for sporting events.

Why?

Replaces primary sources with reliable secondary sources. Removes unsourced information. Consolidates sentences into paragraphs and improves the writing.
 * ✔️ with my first edit. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

11. In Services, delete:

"Infront also provides hospitality and catering, stadium advertising, event management and other related services. "

Why?

This is not true anymore. Recent descriptions of the company in reliable sources no longer mention these services. e.g. ,
 * ✅ Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

12. In Services, delete:

An Infront subsidiary, Host Broadcast Services, produces television and radio signals for the FIFA World Cup. HBS provides a stereo, 5.1, and satellite broadcast feed to organizations that own the rights to the media, typically with 40 minutes of pre-game and 20 minutes of post-game content. Infront subsidiary, Omnigon helps sports, media and entertainment providers to develop mobile apps and websites.

Replace with:

Infront's subsidiary, Host Broadcast Services, manages television and radio signals for broadcasters at sports events such as the 2010 FIFA World Cup. Infront subsidiary, Omnigon helps sports, media and entertainment providers to develop mobile apps and websites.

Why?

Provides reliable sources for similar information. Deletes the word "Another" as first word of third sentence for style reasons.
 * with some tweaks. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

13. In Services, move from "Notable Works" to be the last sentence of the preceeding paragraph:

"Omnigon projects have included digital services to the Serie A and mobile app development for the German Football Association’s DFB Cup. "

14. In Services, add this new sentence after "Omnigon projects have included digital services to the Serie A and mobile app development for the German Football Association’s DFB Cup" (the sentence moving up from Notable Works.)

"In 2019, Omnigon was re-branded as iX.co.

15. In Services, delete the following two sentences:

"On June 4, 2018, Infront announced the acquisition of leading European obstacle course event organiser XLETIX GmbH in a move that extends its footprint in the growing personal and corporate fitness sector.

In July 2018, Infront and FIDAL, the Italian Athletics Federation, announced a six-year partnership on Friday which will run until 2024. The agreement unveiled at a press conference in Rome, will see Infront and FIDAL collaborate at all levels of the federation's events and projects. "

Why?

No reliable sources.


 * NOTE: Please fold all of "Notable Works" into the "Services" section. The following proposes the specific steps for a merger.

16. In Services, insert sub-section: "Football"

Move and edit from "Notable work" section"

In addition to working with FIFA, Infront has supported the German Football Association (DFB) with their national team and DFB Cup, the Italian Lega Serie A , the Italian Football Federation, and the Indonesia Super League.

17. In Services, insert sub-section: "Summer Sports"

Move (and edit - added citation for European Volleyball; sentence on Germany and Turkey) from "Notable works" section:

In summer sports, it works with the EHF EURO in handball and the CEV European Championships in Volleyball.

Move the following sentence, already in Services, to the end of this paragraph:

"As of May 2018, the EHF (European Handball Federation) extended its partnership with Infront to 2030. :

Move the following sentence, from "Notable Works", to this sub-section:

In China, Infront represents the Chinese Basketball Association tournament and the national team, Team China Basketball.

Why?

Re-organizes into readable section. Previous citations not all to reliable sources.

18. In Services, add sub-section: "Winter Sports"

Move and edit these sentences from the "Notable works" section into the "Winter Sports" Services section:

The company represented six of the seven Olympic winter sport federations in 2011. It managed the IIHF for ice hockey as of 2011 and it controlled the media and/or marketing rights to most of the FIS World Cup events, as of 2013. It obtained the marketing rights to the Eurpoean 26-team Champions Hockey League in 2016. In 2018, it acquired all media and marketing rights for the FIS World Ski Championships until 2025. Infront also has media and marketing agreements with the International Ski Mountaineering Federation (ISMF) until 2021 and the International Bobsleigh & Skeleton Federation (IBSF) until 2022.

Why?

Consolidates all the winter games into one sub-section to make it easier to find info. Adds a couple of major partnerships.

19. In Services, add sub-section "Running and Fitness"

and move the following from "Notable Works"

Infront started supporting mass participation and endurance sports in 2011, including Ironman events and the UCI World Championships in cycling.

and add after that:

Infront marketed the BMW Berlin-Marathon as of 2012, the Frankfurt marathon as of 2015, the ITU World Triathlon Series as of 2018, as well as the European corporate running series B2Run, which it owns.

Companies Infront has acquired in the running and fitness space include Threshold, BARMER Women's Run, XLETIX Challenge and Muddy Angel Run. It acquired Megamarsch, a Germany-based company that organizes extreme hiking challenges, in May 2019.


 * Note: The following addresses all content left in the section "Notable Works", which should not be need after deletions and moves.

20. In Notable Work, delete:

"Infront Sports & Media represents all seven Olympic winter sport federations, including the IIHF for ice hockey and the IBU for biathlon. It also manages media and/or marketing rights to most of the FIS World Cup events. In summer sports, Infront started supporting mass participation and endurance sports in 2011, including Ironman events and the UCI World Championships in cycling. It is also a partner for the EHF EURO in handball and the CEV European Championships in Volleyball.

Why?

This is duplicative of info elsewhere in article.

21. In Notable Work, delete:

"Infront's HBS subsidiary was awarded the Judge's award at the 2010 International Broadcasting Convention for its work helping FIFA broadcast the World Cup in stereoscopic 3D. "

Why?

No reliable source. Promo.

22. Delete section "Notable Work."

There should be no other content left in this section that hasn't been moved or deleted.

23. In Infobox change website URL to infront.sport

Thank you very much. Tennisstar1995 (talk) 08:07, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * do you have a sandbox version of what services would look like with your proposed changes? I don't love super long services sections for companies as they tend to be promotional rather than encyclopedic, however I can understand the desire to get rid of Notable Work. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Reply
1.	As requested, our consultant, disclosed above, has created a sandbox with all the proposed Services section updates, which would allow for the elimination of the “Notable Work” section. It is here: User:BC1278/sandbox/Infront

There are a few updates, as explained above. This structure, with subheads and organized by topic, is intended to make the existing content more readable. We could eliminate the sub-heads if you think it’s overkill. In fact, the entire “Services” section could be combined with the History section by just eliminating the “Services” sub-headline. The “services” are not a description of company capabilities but an accounting of partnerships, deals and events in different sectors – so really it overlaps completely with “History.”

2.	In History, please modify the lead sentence as follows, with the new ital bold words: “Infront Sports & Media was founded in October 2002 in part, to sell the television and radio broadcasts for the 2002 FIFA World Cup.”

Just to clarify that the merger of two existing agencies was not solely for this purpose. The article, read in the original German, doesn’t seem to make that claim. 3.	In History, please add these words in ital bold for clarification: “In 2005 the company lost the right to resell the TV and radio rights for FIFA in Europe, though it retained the ability to sell Asian rights, as part of a division of the rights by FIFA.

4.	Please update the URL in the Infobox to infront.sport

5.	Footnotes are not needed in the Infobox to support Philippe Blatter as CEO. Supporting citation already in the body of the text.

6.	The Sandbox version cleans up any footnotes with bad formatting, such as using URLs instead of proper citations. Tennisstar1995 (talk) 08:15, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The infobox requests (4 & 5) were clear improvements and have been implemented. Request 6 could be cleaned up but I admit that doesn't get my blood going and they're functional now. If you wish to change those yourself I'd defend you or BC if anyone asked why you did it. As for the rest I'm afraid they're not aligned with policy. For instance we don't format words for emphasis (request 4). For request 3 Google Translates it as The core business of Infront AG remains the close integration with Fifa and Bing The core business of Infront AG remains its close ties with Fifa. I've used the core business phrasing and sourced the selling of the broadcasts to the New York Times instead.As for the larger rewriting some level of rewriting might be necessary but your proposed changes serve as a form of promotional - with the emphasis on the services offered - rather than encyclopedic content. For example I would suggest the current 1 sentence Infront Sports & Media represents all seven Olympic winter sport federations,[23] including the IIHF for ice hockey[24] and the IBU for biathlon. is the level of depth needed (what we refer to as WP:DUE) in comparison to the paragraph the revised draft gives. I think our current version, imperfect as it is, serves our readers better than the proposed reorganization. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:14, 6 November 2019 (UTC)