Talk:Initiatives of Change

I think that the first point to make is that it is almost impossible to be objective about Initiatives of Change. The philosophy and way of life are passionately believed by some. They are equally hated by others. Add to that the undoubted mistakes that enthusiasts for IofC have made - by being over-zealous or naive - and you wonder where objectivity is going to be found. That is why I think that it is not going to be easy to find objective citations, as called for on the main page. Whatever may be said to the contrary, Garth Lean, author of Frank Buchman a Life (On the tail of a comet in the USA), did make an honest attempt to stand back and view the life of his mentor with a degree of objectivity. Some of the quotes attributed to Tom Driberg, for example, as an objective source are patently not objective. Driberg devoted much of his adult life to attacking and attempting to undermine Buchman's work. Documents about MI5's views of MRA have recently come to light in the M15 files (under the 50 years rule). A moderately hostile assesment appeared in the BBC History Magazine. Although the author sensationalised the documents, one could say that he was being objective. However, the documents themselves were both heavily censored and anonymous. Driberg is known to have worked with MI5 (as well as the KGB). It is quite possible that he personally put some of those documents into the files. My point is that one has to be very cautious about deciding what is and what is not objective. Hummingbird hawkmoth (talk) 16:12, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Initiatives of Change cannot be categorised as a Christian organisation. Frank Buchman was trained as a Church minister, and in the years of the Oxford Group, his work was largely in Europe which at the time was overwhelmingly Christian. So he spoke in those terms. But from early years he was influenced by people of other faiths, such as Mahatma Gandhi, whom he knew, and his conviction grew that people of all faiths could find an experience of change analygous to the experience which Christians term conversion. As he said: 'MRA is the good road of an ideology inspired by God upon which all can unite. Catholic, Jew and Protestant, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist and Confucianist - all find they can change, where needed, and travel along this good road together.' So he did not try to convert people of other faiths to Christianity. Initiatives of Change exemplifies this conviction in practice. One of its main centres is in India, where its work is led by, among others, Rajmohan Gandhi, a grandson of Mahatma Gandhi. The President of its International Association is Muslim, and many Muslims attend its conferences. Initiatives of Change has spiritual roots, but no religious affiliation.Oxted (talk) 21:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

MRA collapsed financially after Buchmann's death. They tried to re-brand themselves as IoC, really just MRA's final death throes. They don't want to lose their Swiss Guest House. AvocadosTheorem (talk) 17:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Chameleons of Change
This right-wing organization has transformed itself from Moral Re-armament into its latest incarnation. Their funding is highly secret, probably the Koch Bros & other fascist billionaires. AvocadosTheorem (talk) 17:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * If its funding is as secret as you claim, what are your sources for asserting that it is "probably" funded by those you name? Hipgnostic (talk) 02:31, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Difficult to place IoC on the left-right spectrum: I used to be quite closely involved, and most people I came across were conservative on such issues as sexual morality, but quite left-wing on worker's rights, self-determination for former colonies and development. Funding comes (or came, 20 years ago) mainly from individuals. The main costs are those of running the buildings such as Caux, but those are at least partly covered by participants contributing to the cost of their stay and doing a certain amount of the donkey work themselves. E.g. all the interpreters were volunteers. This is all from my own experience, so not usable on Wikipedia, but just thought it worth providing input from a former "semi-insider". UrsusMaximus (talk) 10:06, 14 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Its a CULT, and it made the news as such. Why is wikipedia missing this?
 * "Glenn Close: ‘I spent my childhood in a religious cult’" [ http://blog.sfgate.com/dailydish/2014/10/16/glenn-close-i-spent-my-childhood-in-a-religious-cult/ ] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.200.41.67 (talk) 06:36, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Close's quote may have a place in the article, but you can't use a loaded word like "cult" in the lede -- certainly not without attribution 74.95.5.249 (talk) 18:37, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

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