Talk:Institute of Business Administration, University of Dhaka

Untitled
Institution of Business Administration, Karachi

A reference to Institute of Business Administration, Karachi, should be made. Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz is a product of this institution, which has also produced a number of key ranking individuals working in the country and overseas.
 * Well, this article is about IBA of Dhaka University, not IBA Karachi, so that reference or trivia is irrelevant. I am removing it and also moving the article to IBA, Dhaka. You can add that info by starting the article on IBA, Karachi. Thanks. --Ragib 18:14, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Why have someone added a controversy section? NSU doesn't have one, though we want them too. This section is irrelevant for IBA. Esha Karim (talk) 04:58, 11 May 2011 (UTC) Controversy section is not needed in IBA article. PLEASE DO NOT ADD THIS SECTION AGAIN. SPECIALLY NOT FROM ANONYMOUS IP ADDRESSES. Esha Karim (talk) 03:12, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

about controversy section
The controversy section that has been added is a valid controversy and well referenced and well documented. There are other universities which have subheadings related to controversies and it includes a wikipage just related to the controversies.For example University of Bristol had a major admissions controversy and it has been included in its main wikipage.Some other examples are DePauw University which was engulfed in the Deta Zeta controversy.Please check 1.2.3 Section of UoB and 4.3 of DePauw University.There are many such examples.

An institution that has a teacher/professor arrested for terrorism charges and the organization was banned by the government of the country which the institution operates (in this case Bangladesh) should find itself mentioned in the Wikipage to ensure neutral opinion. Also Esha Karim's excuse that NSU doesnt have any controversy, so why should IBA have..is not a valid reason. Also Esha Karim you can be nominated for WP:COI( or conflict of interest) and if you delete the entry the next time, I will nominate the user as COI and put the article under scrutiny of Wiki peers to verify the originality of the statement and remove the unreferenced sections.Since it is against Wiki laws to reveal a author's identity or the institution he comes from, I wont do that as it violates the editor's real life identity. Check Wikipedia:OUTING

Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy states that all articles must represent views fairly and without bias, and conflicts of interest may significantly and negatively affect Wikipedia's ability to fulfill this requirement. If your financially motivated edits would be non-neutral, do not post them.

So I hope you dont delete the controversy section again.If you do so ,I will nominate the article on WP:COIN where experienced Wiki editors will read the case and edit accordingly.Please read the following, Shortcuts: WP:COIC WP:COI compliance As of now,I think i have given substantial evidence on whatever opinion was necessary and i hope the page remains.(Dualumni (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC))

The controversy section is controversial here. We want to make a standard here. While public institutions like DU, RU and IBA will have controversy section, why won't NSU have one. IBA does not need a controversy section. Please do not add this section. If you want it so bad, open a page for Mohiuddin Ahmed and add that he is an IBA professor there. And about ensuring neutrality, why don't you add the rape incident to NSU page? Esha Karim (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:19, 14 May 2011 (UTC).

Moreover, Mohiuddin Ahmed was also a part time teacher of NSU, BRAC U, EWU and a full time teacher of Eastern Uni. Why don't you write the same controversy in their pages? Double standard is not acceptable. Again I'm saying, controversy section here is not needed. If you want to add this info, open a page on Mohiuddin Ahmed, mention that he was an IBA teacher there. Esha Karim (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Then again, letting go all the private universities of Bangladesh as if they don't have any controversies, what kind of NPOV is that?Esha Karim (talk) 14:41, 14 May 2011 (UTC) "If your financially motivated edits would be non-neutral, do not post them." You have attacked me personally. What is your motivation here?Esha Karim (talk) 14:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC) Just read the articles that DUALUMNI mentioned. In the example of University of Bristle, the university administration was related to the controversy. Then again, The DePauw university scandal also related to students and administration. Now there is NO RELATION OF IBA ADMIN OR STUDENTS with what Mohiuddin Ahmed did. So, again I will request that if this info is to be added, it is to be added on a page about Mohiuddin ahmed, not IBA. Esha Karim (talk) 15:08, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Esha. "If your financially motivated edits would be non-neutral, do not post them".Don't get over excited.You are defining the rules of Wikipedia here itself. And about the sentence, I have copy pasted this from Wiki's NPOV policy.You can check if you want to.And the reasons you have added or are adding are not reasons enough to not keep the section.Being a respectable institute that IBA is it defies any logic why even after sanctions imposed by the Govt of Bangladesh,he was still on his post and the reasons that he was part time professor in EWU or NSU as you have mentioned is no logic.

Would like to bring the attention of fellow Wiki editors that Esha who has been talking about another institution's negative incident which in this case is a rape incident is not a national controversy.But an professor who has been proven linked to terrorist and antistate activities and covered by national and international newspapers is a national controversy and more so he was allowed to remain with IBA even after the Govt banned his organization.

Dualumni (talk) 15:31, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Request declined, for now, pending discussion/consensus here. Does not specify clear reliable sources  Chzz  ► 05:02, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Valid Links for the controversy section
This has been covered by BBC and the link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8321329.stm Here it states that the Prof Mahiuddin Ahmed's organization has been banned by the govt in mid 2009."The BBC Bengali editor Sabir Mustafa says that Hizb-ut Tahrir - which has well known global links - has been active lately in universities and the government may well have been worried about its increasing influence among students" Here goes another link of Bangladesh's major newspaper http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=24678 .Another Professor of DU was arrested for the same charges 6 months later along with Mahiuddin who was still teaching in IBA and arrested from IBA teacher's headquarters.

Next in 2008, 10 members of the Prof Mahiuddin led organization was arrested http://www.hizb.org.uk/press-releases/ht-bangladesh-condemns-arrest-of-its-spokesman-demands-his-immediate-release Still he along with other professors and students continued his propaganda from IBA.Not only that, Three students was arrested this February including a Grade XII student of Notre Dame College Dhaka which highlights the impact he was/is having from IBA's teacher's quarters.http://www.daily-sun.com/index.php?view=details&type=daily_sun_news&pub_no=136&cat_id=1&menu_id=2&news_type_id=1&index=6&archiev=yes&arch_date=23-02-2011

Dualumni (talk) 19:58, 14 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Making a few notes as I go through this...


 * The BBC News article mentions "The head of Hizb-ut Tahrir in Bangladesh, Professor Mohiuddin Ahmed, denied his organisation was involved in terrorist activities" and mentions that the organisation had been active in universities recently, but doesn't mention IBA Dhaka.


 * The Daily Star article mentions "Maola, a management studies professor at the Dhaka University" being arrested, and mentions "its chief coordinator Mohiuddin Ahmed, an associate professor of the IBA at the DU" being arrested previously, but doesn't comment further on links with the university.


 * The hizb.org.uk press release mentions Ahmed being arrested and being its leader, but doesn't mention his professorial role or the university at all.


 * The Daily Sun article mentions various students or ex-students being arrested for putting up anti-government posters, but it doesn't mention the university at all, although it does again mention Ahmed as being head of the organisation. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with the observations made by Demmiurge1000. Unless the institute is officially promoting any controversial activities, nor is deemed responsible for the conduct of its faculty, the actions of Ahmed do not make the institute controversial. --Ragib (talk) 21:01, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Demi my points are

1.You stated show me where the university students have been involved in such activities. Here is a link http://www.hindustantimes.com/tabloid-news/bangladesh/Bangla-police-arrest-4-students-for-links-to-Hizb-ut-Tahrir/Article1-541268.aspx

2.The day Hizbut Tahrir was banned, he was still freely roaming in IBA teacher's quarters and the next day following the ban, he called a press meet in the IBA campus. This is objectionable as any institution would have immediately removed him from the institute's rolls and the premises http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=20107

3.He was also directly recruiting students to be part of his banned outfit during his term as a IBA professor which i again think is questionable. This is surely a breach of any institute's rules. http://www.al-waie.orgwww.khilafah.com/index.php/news-watch/south-asia/7950-bangladesh-hizb-ut-tahrir-student-front-still-active-at-dhaka-university

This is what Mohiuddin said who is principally involved in recruiting students from DU and other universities"He said students are the main force of the organisation and Chhatra Mukti has become successful in establishing its network in most of the public universities in Bangladesh as well as private universities and colleges in the city." This was his influence in short

4."DU correspondent reports: Police arrested four students of Dhaka University for their alleged link with the banned Islamist outfit Hizb ut-Tahrir Bangladesh from Surya Sen Hall in the early hours of yesterday". Here it states the DU students involvment in these activities which shows the Professor along with his partner Golam Mowla a DU professor having its influence on DU students. http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=137831

5.This is the contact info of Hizb ut Tahrir. http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/info/english.php/contents_en/entry_3285 Here his email address which ends with iba is mentioned.Although the outfit has been mentioned it still caries this address Tel: +880 29558854 / Mobile:+880 1713008822 Fax: +880 29558854 E-mail: mohiuddin.ahmed.iba@gmail.com

6.He is still in the rosters of IBA alumni and IBA faculty list. Even after 1 year of arrest, the university still does not remove him from the list .It shows the relation he has with the institute is so strong, that IBA is unwilling to remove him from the lists which is definately not pardonable.He is also mentioned in the alumni list but Wiki says the link has triggered protection facility so cannot add that. http://www.iba-du.edu/index.php?page=faculty

With these, i rest my case. If you think the controversy section doesn't need to be added or if you thnk only a mention of this controversy in the page can be done is dependent on the forthcoming opinions of valued wikimembers.Dualumni (talk) 18:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, you are completely mistaken here. Every criminal is the alumni of some school, college, or university. That doesn't make the school controversial. Your number 5 point is especially ridiculous. If I create a gmail account with, say, harvard at the end, does that make me associated with Harvard in any way? As for number 6, if he was an alumnus of IBA, why would he be "removed" no matter what he has done subsequently? Nothing changes the fact that he studied there.


 * Overall, your arguments are baseless, and borders on being completely ridiculous. Please come up with something logical. Thanks. --Ragib (talk) 18:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Dealing with your numbered points one by one;


 * 1. The Hindustan Times article mentions four Dhaka University students being arrested, but it doesn't say they were from IBA Dhaka. In fact, it doesn't mention IBA Dhaka at all. Interestingly, it also says that they were handed over to the police by the university authorities themselves, and also that Dhaka University sent Ahmed on forced leave to keep him out of the campus.


 * 2. "This is objectionable as any institution would have immediately removed him from the institute's rolls and the premises" - that's your viewpoint. It may be a reasonable viewpoint. But Wikipedia is not here to report your viewpoint, it is here to report what reliable independent sources say. The Daily Star article does not point out that it's objectionable, it just says that it happened. (Incidentally, the Hindustan Times article discussed in point 1 says that the enforced leave to keep him off campus was enacted "a few days" after the ban, so his being able to use university facilities one day after the ban was purely because the university didn't react very quickly - not because they were colluding with him or encouraging him.)


 * 3. "which i again think is questionable" ... again, Wikipedia is not here to report what you think is questionable, but what reliable sources have said is questionable. The Khilafah.com link that you give, only mentions the IBA in the context of mentioning Ahmed's position there in passing, not as it having any role in his activities.


 * 4. The Daily Star article you mention here does indeed state that the people arrested were distributing leaflets in the IBA, but it doesn't state, or even hint, that the IBA was involved in or supporting such activity.


 * 5. Yes he put the letters "iba" in his gmail address. This doesn't make the IBA responsible for his actions - unless a reliable source claims that it does.


 * 6. "It shows the relation he has with the institute is so strong" - again, that's your analysis. Wikipedia is not here as a place to record your analysis of the situation, it is only here to record what reliable sources say about the situation.


 * I think Culture and Activities at University of Dhaka would be a good article in which to record the political activities that a large number of University of Dhaka (including IBA) staff and students appear to engage in. What do you think? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:58, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

One observation: in point 2 of DUalumni, it was mentioned that the press briefing was called on IBA premises. The news report mentions "Mohiuddin Ahmed, chief coordinator of Hizb ut-Tahrir Bangladesh and also a teacher of Institute of Business Administration (IBA) of Dhaka University, called a press briefing at his IBA quarter residence at Greenroad at about 11:00am following the ban imposed on his party." Also note, how quickly should "eviction of banned teacher from premises" take place is up to consensus; cause there is no standard. And also, all web pages are not wikipedia that they are updated for every incidents. In Bangladesh, it's usual to see backdated webpages with little new information. Thank you Esha Karim (talk) 19:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Invalidity of "Valid links"
Once again I will remind you, no where in the news it is mentioned that IBA admin or students were related to Hizb-ut Tahrir. Whatever Mohiuddin did, he is responsible for that. If I want to make an institution controversial for one person, I'm wrong. IBA has 39 teachers, all of them has personal life. I ask for one reference in the newspapers (mainstream one of-course) where it is said that Mohiuddin preached Fundamentalism in IBA. Again, I will suggest that if you want to add this info, open a page on Mohiuddin Ahmed, add it there. Now, about the links: 1. BBC link only state the ban of Hizb-ut Tahrir. IBA is mentioned no where. 2. Daily Star Link states that Golam Maola is arrested, names Mohiuddin Ahmed, mentions he is a teacher of IBA, nothing else about IBA. 3.  Daily sun link states that three students were arrested for being members of Hizb-ut Tahrir. Nowhere IBA is mentioned. Do understand, this is a personal controversy of a university teacher. You can not relate this to an institution. This controversy is only suited for a page named "Mohiuddin Ahmed" For future references, please quote with "" what you are quoting. Thank You.

Esha Karim (talk) 20:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Pioneer in Semester and Credit based education in Bangladesh
My elder brother was admitted to Ahsanullah engineering college,Dacca (now Dhaka ), East Pakistan now ( Bangladesh )in 1961 when this institution already followed semester system (two semesters in a year ). In 1962 it was upgraded to university and renamed a s East Pakistan University of Engineering and Technology ( EPUET ) which was further renamed as Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology ( BUET ) after the liberation of Bangladesh from Pakistan in 1971. However IBA, Dhaka was established in 1966 whereas semester systemwas already followed in Ahsanullah Engineering college, Dhaka in 1961 so it is not correct to mention that IBA, Dhaka is a pioneer in introducing semester system in Bangladesh. It has also mendioned that. Further its debatale if IBA, Dhaka is pioneer of credit based education system in Bangladesh because Institute of Education and Research, Dhaka was established in 1960 and had probably semester system as well as credit based education system. Hence the Wikipedia page of IBA, Dhaka needs to be corrected accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.155.125.108 (talk) 11:04, 3 September 2011 (UTC) Well, your elder brother is not a reliable source as long as you don't put up the name of your brother and specific references to any published materials that he has about his college. Morover, stop using words like "had probably semester system as well as credit based education system", there is no chance of probability about any wikipedia articles. You have to be sure to write things. So far it is sure that IBA introduced both semester based education system and credit based education system in Bangladesh as per IBA prospectus which is a far more valid source than your brother's memory. So, the article stays unchanged. Esha Karim (talk) 18:49, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Massive Return to Old data
The vandals have conquered in this page. I'm reverting the page to historical version. I would request to once again semi protect this page. Because vandals are at work. Please read comparisons befor reverting any change by me.

Advertorial tone
I've done the first 2 sections but got fed up with it, I'm afraid. Removing the rest of the gushing tone will improve it a lot more Chrismorey (talk) 08:10, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Vandals Alert
Removed controversy section, vandals at work again.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
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