Talk:Integrated education in Northern Ireland

Rating
I classed this as a medium importance document in NI Project, as i think that it is probably of some importance, but low in the whole schools project. I recon that it needs a lot of work so it is a stub. I dont know if i am supposed to rate things like this but i am thinking that if i rate it then maybe more people will have a look at the article and it will develop. Personally i recon that the main things that would improve it, and i may have a bash at these are:

A - Setting out more clearly who/what classes a school as integrated, and working out where the uncited facts come from, and placing the opinions in a more balanced light.

B - Setting out the layout a bit better - ie basically splitting up into History, and Current sections - as i believe these are both important and currently they are mixed together in a rather unsatisfactory way.

I set it as not needing an info box - as (as far as i can see the info boxes relate more to actual schools, where-as this is an education related article.

Wideofthemark 20:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Major details missing
How do integrated schools determine their own integrated status? There's nothing in this artice about the mechanics of integration in intergrated schools. Is it by quota? Who regulates the religious makeup of these schools?

So many unanswered questions... ! Icanseeformilesandmiles 18:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * *shrugs* State schools are actually integrated schools. -- Mal 08:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Good questions as to integrated status/quotas etc. - I believe it is/was rather more complicated than a simple quota - certainly for government funding purposes (for example i think they have to show that there is a desire for integrated education that is not being provided nearby and is not targeted at draining from other schools) - although i believe that integrated schools are allowed to be slightly 'selective' in order to keep their balance (correct me if i am wrong).

One slight annoyance i had with this article is that it uses the word 'currently' a lot - without saying when currently was - probably not good for the article. Also quite a few assertions are unreferenced.

As to the comment about state schools being integrated....i feel i would have to disagree. Certainly i have been both to integrated and normal state schools (so my opinion may be a bit skewed), and though none of the state schools have had anything openly bigoted or institutional that would stop catholics from attending, i doubt that there is a large proportion that would make it easy for catholic teachers or pupils to be open about their religion....possibly more because of the ingrained culture of it than otherwise. In much the same way as the police service in ni (RUC), or in london(with race), though the majority of people in them are nice and friendly and not bigoted, and though there is no longer any open unfairness in their recruitment, the fact remains that they are heavily biased numerically and this probably plays out in their actions in one way or another.Wideofthemark 23:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

First integrated School
Currently both wikipedia articles for Integrated Education and Lagan College state that Lagan was the first integrated school in N. Ireland. If Holywood Rudolf Steiner School is the first then these articles need to be updated. Perhaps Lagan is the first state run integrated school.--Design 12:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Would be interested to know about this. I have always been told that lagan was the first. - I guess it comes again to when an integrated school is integrated.... - The page on Holywood's school says that However the Holywood School opened 6 years previously and has never discriminated based on religious or any other grounds.

Only thing that springs to mind is that i guess most schools could say that they havent discriminiated on any religious or other grounds (sounds just like a phrase from a government pamphlet) but, this doesnt neccessarily mean it is integrated.

Guinness book of records anyone? --Wideofthemark 23:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Further thought after reading both pages - Lagan college was set up specifically to provide integrated education, while holywood's presumably was set up to be a steiner school - with its particular emphasises - which presumably dont include religious termoil etc. Not sure whether you could say that lagan was the first integrated state school - as as far as i know funding matters become murky - and the lagan one wasnt state funded for ages. ?? are steiner schools state funded? Incidently is it (Waldorf Education) named after a salad? Wideofthemark

Yet more thoughts..... Holywood school's website [[]] doesnt have any claims about ever being integrated (or particularly being now). It is also not on the List of Integrated Schools in Northern Ireland. Also if we are having schools which are accidentally integrated, then does Friends School Lisburn qualify - or any gernally missunderstood/independant school? Personally i think i have come round to the view that Holywood has very little claim to 1st Integrated School - afraid i'm probably gonna edit the Holywood's record (sorry) Wideofthemark
 * Friends is not an integrated School, to be called integrated you need the blessing of the militant social engineers at NICIE. The fact that it is an excellent school that accepts all religions and none is not relevant to them.Traditional unionist 08:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Some issues
The statistic that 95% of pupils attend denominational schools still hasn't been given a reference, despite this having been tagged for a while.

The article also distinguishes between Catholic and Protestant schools without mentioning the Nationalist/Unionist politics (granted they fall very closely along those lines, but there have been examples of Protestant Nationalists for example).Autarch (talk) 22:00, 12 March 2010 (UTC)