Talk:Integrity (band)/Archive 1

Genre?
I'm not familiar with this particular band, but as far as I'm aware there's no such genre as "Holy Terror". Can anyone provide a specific genre for them? Prophaniti 10:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Heh. Holy Terror is a really specific term for a particular crowd of hardcore bands from the mid-90's. I added "hardcore punk" and "metalcore" to the genre box, just for clarity. User:Escapeartist (who is currently unable to log in for some reason) 21:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, much appreciated :) Prophaniti 02:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure integrity is holy terror, not metalcore. They don't have the same elements of a metalcore band, and they don't have the lame generic metalcore breakdowns. Someone should change it to hardcore.--151.199.195.65 15:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you are wrong,Integrity together with Judge create the Genre metalcore. Listen the albums humanity/for those.../seasons in.. check them out and then youll know what im talking about. Cheers! Santoro93 18:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I took out the "sludgecore" genre, it has nothing to do with integrity... Santoro93 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.55.38.123 (talk) 22:19, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Changed this back to Holy Terror - the genre tag Holy Terror links to a horror movie. Even if the genre does legitimately exist, the Holy Terror tag is correct, and is the genre to which the band are most commonly linked.--Salicouscrumb (talk) 16:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Hardly one of the first metalcore/crossover bands
DRI, SOD, Cryptic Slaughter, Slaughter(Canada), Amebix etc were ALL doing it before them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.140.254 (talk) 09:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * D.R.I., S.O.D., Cryptic Slaughter were all crossover thrash bands, the only Slaughter(Canada) band I know is a death/thrash metal band from '84 and Amebix where crust punk. Maybe Integrity was not the first to combine metal with punk, but they are among the first bands to create the "metallic hardcore" style and giving a proper name to metalcore along bands like Converge and Earth Crisis. This is even given as a fact, with references, on the wikipage for metalcore. --Blodnatt13 (talk) 15:50, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Those bands came way before, I agree, not to mention The Cro-Mags, which were, like, 8 years before! Calling them "one of the first" is ludicrous...oops, there's another one: Ludichrist. --Almightybooblikon (talk) 18:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Cro-Mags where a hardcore punk band that turned crossover. Ludichrist played speed metal/hardcore. There's a difference between the crossover thrash sound and the metallic hardcore one. The metalcore wikipage supports with facts and references, a must on the Wikipedia guidelines. --Blodnatt13 (talk) 15:50, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Number of full-length, studio albums?
Is it ten or twelve? Other current editor says twelve, I only count ten full-lengths, as reflected in the Wiki. If it's twelve, then the discography needs to be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariano Landa (talk • contribs) 17:33, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Past members and bands
I think it's only fair to include some of the other notable acts that previous members played in. Of course, not every small band that a former Integrity member was in, but at least the ones that released US and European records, whether regional (Committed, Final Plan) and definitely the big ones (Ringworm, Hatebreed, Terror, etc.). Any thoughts?


 * I was having a thought about starting a topic about the predecessor. Encyclopaedia Metallum cites that the band started "from the ashes of" a "hardcore outfit" *Diehard*. Shouldn't we have a section on origins?

Lincoln J. (talk) 09:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC), replying to an unsubscribed OP

Dwid Hellion is editing this page
[ Redacted per WP:BLP ]

thank you Kire1975 I am grateful that someone who has stated above that they have never heard of me nor of my band before today, has also decided to take it upon themself to edit a wiki page about me and my band. Dwid hellion (talk) 08:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC) dwid hellion
 * See wp:coi.Slatersteven (talk) 18:40, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Hellion's COI editing stopped on 16 December 2020, right after the above was posted. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:23, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

[ Redacted per WP:BLP ]


 * Note that I have no personal or professional relationship with Hellion and that my sole interest is in addressing Kire1975's BLP violations regarding Hellion. And please try to spell my name correctly. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:23, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

This whole page is a Press Release
Virtually all prose on this page is unambiguous promotion taken from the band's bio page, merch page and from the band member himself who has been allowed to break WP:NPOV over 500 times since 2009. Why is it notable that the editor in chief of a monthly magazine praises them? The artist Derek Hess worked with them doing artwork for their first few albums according to a previous edit. Dwid was featured on the cover of a magazine? How is that notable? Pioneer! Infamous! Intense! Extreme! All unambiguous WP:PROMO.

[ Redacted per WP:BLP ]


 * As has been explained to you repeatedly, per WP:WTRMT, especially point #6, it is the responsibility of the person adding the tags to initiate a discussion on the article's talk page to support the placement of the tag. WTRMT clearly says "If the tagging editor failed to do so and there is no other support for the template, it can be removed." Note that there is zero requirement to seek consensus for removal. Note that there is zero requirement for the editor doing the removing to initiate a discussion on the talk page. That is solely the responsibility of the person adding the tags.


 * Now that you have initiated a discussion about the page being promotional, you became free to re-tag for that one issue, and I see that you have done that. I have no problem with that.


 * Some of your tagging has been purely disruptive. You should never place an opinion tag inside a direct quote. Direct quotes are always opinions. In your eagerness to overtag you changed "monthly" to "monthly magazine" and in the same edit tagged the word "monthly" as being overly detailed. When you are tagging your own edits it shows that your tagging is out of control.


 * OK, on to the promotional issue. Please present some suggested language that you think is not promotional, or better yet read WP:SOFIXIT and edit the page so that you are happy with it. I am certainly not in love with the current wording, I do think it is promotional, and if I didn't have to constantly deal with your disruption I would have completely reworded it by now. Now it is getting late where I am, so I will most likely have a go at it when I get off work tomorrow.


 * What do you suggest we replace the current language and sources with?


 * Or, if you think it is unsalvageable, do you need assistance listing it for deletion? (No offense intended; I simply don't know whether you know how to do that). --Guy Macon (talk) 06:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

[ Redacted per WP:BLP ]


 * Again I ask, what do you suggest we replace the current language and sources with? You keep saying that you don't like the current version. Please give us a tiny hint as to what you would like to see instead. --Guy Macon (talk) 08:08, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

[ Redacted per WP:BLP ]


 * Again I ask, what do you suggest we replace the current language and sources with? You keep saying that you don't like the current version. Please give us a tiny hint as to what you would like to see instead. Could you please explain why you refuse to answer this simple question? --Guy Macon (talk) 10:36, 17 December 2020 (UTC)


 * On second thought, don't bother. We both know that you will never explain what you want done. I an not going to reposd to you any further. Feel free to have the last word; I won't reply because I don't plan on reading it. (I am also setting my preferences so that I won't see it if you ping me. --Guy Macon (talk) 10:42, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

[ Redacted per WP:BLP ]

Fresh Start
I would like to open up a conversation about how we can work together to improve this page.

Let's start with the easy stuff: Citations. (please read WP:V and WP:RS if you are not familiar with those policies.)

Please list sources that discusses the band or any of its members. We will deal with whether a particular source is reliable after we make the list; for now I just want to get the facts right.

In particular, what are the sources for the list of past band members and for the list of albums? How do we know that somebody didn't just make up a name for a band member or an album? Whoever wrote those lists got the information from somewhere. Where did it come from?

For example, the entry for Integrity's 1952 Album Bagpipe Polkas Around the World seems like it doesn't belong. And I don't think the bit about Audrey Hepburn playing Pedal Steel Guitar is correct. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:36, 9 January 2021 (UTC)


 * INTEGRITY has not had any members based in Cleveland, ohio for decades. I am wondering if it is to remove mention of Cleveland or at least limit the mentions of cleveland as it creates confusion. Many journalists use wiki as a quick source to form an idea of the band and to use as a source to find interview questions. For the past 18 years i have endlessly explained that I do not reside in cleveland. thanks for your consideration. Dwid hellion (talk) 19:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)dwid hellion


 * Right now the article says:


 * "Integrity is a hardcore punk band, originally from Cleveland, Ohio but based in Belgium since 2003."
 * and
 * "According to its bio on Relapse Records website, Integrity was formed in Cleveland in 1988".
 * Any journalist who reads that and thinks you are in Cleveland instead of Belgium is an idiot.
 * Question: That bio is no longer on the Relapse Records website. Is it still valid? Should I delete the citation and the material sourced to that citation? It is a bit WP:PROMOTIONAL. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Members and discography sections must be sourced
Unless someone comes up with some sourcing, I intend to delete the list of members. Where did the information come from? How do we know that it is accurate? --Guy Macon (talk) 01:44, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Five days with no discussion and no sources, so I am removing the section.


 * Per Verifiability, "Verifiability means other people using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source. Wikipedia does not publish original research. Its content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of editors. Even if you are sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it... All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed."


 * If anyone has sources for the remaining unsourced materiel in this article, now would be a good time to produce them. All unsourced material will be deleted. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:49, 18 January 2021 (UTC)