Talk:International law/Archive 1

Public international law
The article says: "Public international law (or international public law) concerns the treaty relationships between the nations and persons which are considered the subjects of international law, including sovereign nations, the legal status of the Holy See, international organizations (including especially supranational organizations such as the United Nations), and in some cases, movements of national liberation (wars of national liberation) and armed insurrectional movements (see insurgency).

All of the text in italics requires a reliable source. Is the Holy See not a sovereign nation? Aside from the Geneva Conventions is there any applicable international law for "movements of national liberation (wars of national liberation) and armed insurrectional movements (see insurgency)."

Restore if you can provide the citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.48.48 (talk) 06:55, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

untitled
Starting proper talk page for International law. There seems to have been some confusion about what this page is meant to be, and I take the blame, because when I moved the page titles half a year ago, I must not have moved the talk page. International law can mean a few things - the one that everyone is familiar with is technically "public international law". All additions on that topic should go there.  Wik idea  23:52, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

biased?
''The European Union is a concept without definition. The world has never seen such a system.''

What's up with that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.119.179.199 (talk) 23:23, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. What a load of crap. I'm tempted to say we should leave it in for amusement. Art Markham (talk) 23:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

question about a sentence
The European Union is the first and only example of a supra-national legal framework, where sovereign nations have pooled their authority through a system of courts and political institutions.

I don't know much about the EU, but how is it fundamentally different than the United States? 2nd Piston Honda (talk) 14:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose the main thing is that the US is a nation state. It has a federal government, and authority derives from the Constitution. In the EU, authority derives from the member states. They can opt out if they want.  Wik idea  01:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In practical terms it is very different as well. From the outside, the US is a single country with a single foreign policy, a single currency, no internal border restrictions etc. The EU does not (fully) have any of these things. The statement in the article is quite a big one though, and should certainly be referenced. Art Markham (talk) 23:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, US are a federal state and the EU is a Sui Generis international organation.The EU is as a model of states integration has been pushed so far but never reached the level of federal state.--Rezak001 (talk) 09:22, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Page targetted by banned user Karmaisking
Just a heads up. The active sockpuppet-using banned user Karmaisking has announced that this is one of the pages that he targets. Please keep an eye out for POV pushing by this user's sockpuppets. --LK (talk) 09:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Organization or entity (ie legal entity)
International law is not just about organizations, institutionalized groups of individuals, but about the liability of international legal entities. Law is about failures in responsabilities that are the cause of liabilities due an individual entity or a group entity.

I´ll change organization into legal entity.

(Fractalhints (talk) 15:10, 5 January 2010 (UTC))

Law of Nations
There should be the addition of a section that documents the transition from the language of "law of nations" to international legalism. The former existed following the Congress of Vienna while the later only developed when the work of Jeremy Bentham, in his work on perpetual peace, was released. To say that "international law" or legalism existed much before the 1840s (particularly as a common term) is an anachronism. The actual discussion of law as existing in an "inter-national" capacity did not truly take hold until well after the liberal revolts of 1848 even. The issue is one of universal law (international) and arbitrated common laws (i.e. the law of individual nations being used by the governing jurisdiction. This is a substantive historical distinction. And one that might further be connected to the very rise of "liberal internationalism" which is greatly dependent on the idea of universal law (i.e. universal human rights, universal trade rights, universal access to sea ways) for its world view.

for more see M. W. Janis, Jeremy Bentham and the Fashioning of "International Law", The American Journal of International Law, Vol. 78, No. 2 (Apr., 1984), pp. 405-418. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.2.252 (talk) 15:45, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Important cases
Some of them and their precedence need to be mentioned here, as this is a minor article that can be expanded. Here I'm thinking of the International Court of Justice advisory opinion on Kosovo's declaration of independence.Lihaas (talk) 08:14, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Chile signs UN Charter 1945.jpg
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 * test 208.54.83.217 (talk) 19:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Acta Jure Imperii - Law term not in wikipedia
I just made some research regarding a judgement made by the ICJ on judicial immunities of the state in early Feb 2012 (with the case of Germany v Italy) the judgement is online here: http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/143/16883.pdf

A key term is the category of so-called Acta Jure Imperii, which designate sovereign acts, which can include even war atrocities, but states cannot be held liable for due to international law practice (though there are some indications that this practice might change at some point).

The text of the has some interesting theoretical passages and offer some insights into international law practice.

Here some passages:

"56. Although there has been much debate regarding the origins of State immunity and the identification of the principles underlying that immunity in the past, the International Law Commission concluded in 1980 that the rule of State immunity had been “adopted as a general rule of customary international law solidly rooted in the current practice of States” (Yearbook of the International Law Commission, 1980, Vol. II (2), p. 147, para. 26). That conclusion was based upon an extensive survey of State practice and, in the opinion of the Court, is confirmed by the record of national legislation, judicial decisions, assertions of a right to immunity and the comments of States on what became the United Nations Convention.  That practice shows that, whether in claiming immunity for themselves or according it to others, States generally proceed on the basis that there is a right to immunity under international law, together with a corresponding obligation on the part of other States to respect and give effect to that immunity.

57. The Court considers that the rule of State immunity occupies an important place in international law and international relations. It derives from the principle of sovereign equality of States, which, as Article 2, paragraph 1, of the Charter of the United Nations makes clear, is one of the fundamental principles of the international legal order. This principle has to be viewed together with the principle that each State possesses sovereignty over its own territory and that there flows from that sovereignty the jurisdiction of the State over events and persons within that territory. Exceptions to the immunity of the State represent a departure from the principle of sovereign equality. Immunity may represent a departure from the principle of territorial sovereignty and the jurisdiction which flows from it."

This is meant as background material for some wikipedians, also with the incident maybe to include the cited term... Green Future (talk) 00:25, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

inadequate
I know this is already graded as "start-up class." I'm sorry to say that it is terribly inadequate. Much of it is simply confused. It is worse than nothing. Unfortunately, I do not have time to rewrite it now. Whoever is working on it should be able to find somebody who knows the subject better, though. I have taught International Law for 40 years, and if possible I will get back to it in the future. Eleanor1944 (talk) 03:24, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Conflict of laws
Is Conflict of laws a separate legal discipline, as the lead says, or is it just an aspect of international law in general? --Wickey-nl (talk) 09:24, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

American Civil War and English System?
When I read the article (to learn) I saw this sentence:

// Two sophisticated legal systems developed in the Western World: the codified systems of continental European states (American Civil Law) and English common law, //

What does this mean ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monowiki (talk • contribs) 02:50, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

History section needs extension
The history section doesn't even cover the most basic relevant information. Westphalian Peace, Utrecht Peace, Vienna Congress, the Holy Alliance, Peace of Paris, Hague Conventions... None of that mentioned. Seriously, I'm disappointed with the Wiki community here. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 21:29, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

(Untitled)
Note: Possible citation link http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/International+Law Marketeronline (talk) 14:54, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

History needs to be paraphrased and attributed
I removed the following from the article because it is taken very closely from Roger Hopkin Burke's Criminal Justice Theory, An Introduction, page 134. I believe this violates Wikipedia's guidelines. I wanted to put the information here in case someone would like to paraphrase and properly attribute it.

"In the 20th century, the two World Wars and the formation of the League of Nations (and other international organizations such as the International Labor Organization) all contributed to accelerate this process and established much of the foundations of modern public international law. After the failure of the Treaty of Versailles and World War II, the League of Nations was replaced by the United Nations, founded under the UN Charter. The UN has also been the locus for the development of new advisory (non-binding) standards, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Other international norms and laws have been established through international agreements, including the Geneva Conventions on the conduct of war or armed conflict, as well as by agreements implemented by other international organizations such as the International Labor Organization, the World Health Organization, the World Intellectual Property Organization, the International Telecommunication Union, UNESCO, the World Trade Organization, and the International Monetary Fund. The development and consolidation of such conventions and agreements have proven to be of great importance in international relations."

Chinese legal codes
The earliest known Chinese legal codes are from the state of Zheng in the 6th cent. BC, probably contemporary with Draco and Solon in Athens. The earliest written code is that of Hammurabi in the 18th cent. BC. Other legal systems, such as that of Ancient Egypt, dispensed with a prescriptive code and probably (from the beginning of the Dynastic Period c. 3100 BC) relied on the decisions of judges and courts.Pamour (talk) 10:28, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Relevance of the effectiveness of international law
Hello, I just undid an edit, where a sourced remark that often international law is considered useless and uneffective was removed. It being sourced was one reason, secondly, this is probably the first thing you learn if you engage in the field, I even learned this in social studies in (German) highschool. Maybe move it instead of remove it? - Immernoch EkelAlfred (Spam me! (or send me serious messages, whatever you like)) 09:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Updates
Many years ago I added material to this page, including the talk page, while continuing a "public international law" page. I've migrated the material there here because this page has the best understood name, and it seems on reflection that the idea of a separate "public" international law is taking sides in a debate that most readers simply won't care about (namely the public/private divide). Most people use this term - and Wikipedia uses the "conflict of laws" term over "private international law" - so the material should develop here. I'd really like to improve this page fully, and intend to do so in due course. Please leave any suggestions and I'll do my best to incorporate them.  Wik idea  21:30, 4 November 2017 (UTC)