Talk:Internet meme/Archive 2

"Living meme" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Living meme. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 1 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 17:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

History
The section Modern memes should have its own section apart from the History section.Mayxiii (talk) 01:49, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2021
NbcCharlie (talk) 22:14, 1 March 2021 (UTC) funny
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pupsterlove02  talk • contribs 22:21, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

"Dead meme" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Dead meme. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 4 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 17:21, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks like the Dead meme page is dead.
 * Ian McDiarmid (Imperator Palpatine) (10585133944).jpg
 * Joe (talk) 23:23, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2021
Change "apart" to "a part" 174.21.73.24 (talk) 17:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done RudolfRed (talk) 17:13, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Control over use
I'm not sure User:Vchimpanzee/Disaster Girl qualifies as notable. If it does, I don't really have time to do the extensive research right now, but I found just enough facts to possibly establish notability. However, this is a unique case that might deserve a section or at leastmention in this article. The subject of the meme has sold the rights to it.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  22:45, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, I saw the word "copyright" in a source I discovered yesterday. That makes it appropriate for the "copyright" section. I went into more detail than I should have but notability has not definitely been established for a separate article, though I seem to have a good case. I feel weird calling a 4-year-old girl by her last name but when she was an adult I did use her last name.


 * More importantly, the source suggests but does not go into detail about the selling of memes as NFTs. This is not the first time it has been done, so this doesn't establish some new concept, but the concept has been established.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  16:32, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
 * you had your chance to respond. This is an example of how the subject of an Internet meme gained control over its distribution and benefitted from it. I don't know for certain how many others have done this, but one source suggests a few have. I tried to find something that states whether this has been done many times or whether this is a unique case. I feel like I did the best I could. I maybe included a more detailed description than was necessary of the meme itself but I'm not absolutely certain it is notable.


 * Also, the New York Post came up first in a search when I was making sure national sources covered it. I'm pretty sure all the facts are covered in other sources and i can correct my draft.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  17:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Okay, I found a source for one set of facts in the Post. The New York Times reports all of these. As for another use, the other sources change the meaning. "10 percent of sales", I assume, means 10 percent of the proceeds. That's different from profits, with the Post reported. The Times did not include this fact.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  17:16, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not messaging on the talk, but I was just looking at the page (it's not on my watchlist) and the section stood out to me as one that was too much recentism, so I checked the history only and saw it was a recent addition by you. I don't see how your response addresses either the edit notice or my edit summary: respectively, This article contains a minimal number of examples. Only add an entry to this list if it ... is crucial to explaining the concept of an internet meme. and What makes this one of the most important meme uses of all time, such that it would still be good as one of the few examples given here in 10 years' time? If you're trying to find a home for the content you've written then I'm sure we can find a place for it. The edit notice gives List of internet phenomena as a potential starting point. Do you think the main topic of the story is NFTs?—try non-fungible token. But this not being standalone notable is precisely the reason not to include it here, on an extremely brief summary-level page where all examples should be primarily described in relation to what subculture they are representative of. — Bilorv ( talk ) 18:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see where they are a part of by turning them into NFTs. I tried to find other examples but all I've found so far is Disaster Girl. One source mentions other cases where the same thing has been done but I don't seem to be able to find proof this is not a unique situation or something groundbreaking.


 * If your problem is with the detailed description then if you say a place can be found for that, good. I can't see the individual topic being declared notable, though.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  19:37, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, I see my argument won't work for Disaster Girl. What I had not tried was taking each of the examples of memes turned into NFTs and seeing if that was covered. Grumpy Cat is an NFT and has been for just over a month. And it has an article. Here is a source for that, but I try not to use finance.yahoo.com as its articles tend to disappear. And the source does not mention how the subject (or a human representing the subject, in this case) is trying to take control, the way the sources for Disaster Girl do. But the concept needs to be mentioned in the article.


 * For other examples, the sources are less reliable and I'm not optimistic of being able to use any of them.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  19:50, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Bingo! I think we found our source. And Disaster Girl is the first example mentioned. While this doesn't justify a detailed description of her meme in this article, the source makes a good case for showing her as the primary example of the concept.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  19:53, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Not on the subject of NFTs but the statement "She is one of a small number of people whose faces came to define mainstream internet culture" seems to add to the chance of Disaster Girl qualifying as This article contains a minimal number of examples. Only add an entry to this list if it ... is crucial to explaining the concept of an internet meme. and What makes this one of the most important meme uses of all time, such that it would still be good as one of the few examples given here in 10 years' time?. You're welcome to say that statement by that one source isn't good enough, or that the source isn't good enough. But I feel that the source gives us a reason for an NFT section. No, NFTs that are memes belong here, even if they could go under NFT.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions &nbs46, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for your further research. With this, I can see a short section about NFTs emphasising the key themes between these different cases, and with Disaster Girl as an example, being okay. Be careful what to claim though—my understanding is that you don't in general "own" anything but an NFT if you buy an NFT of a meme. You don't own the copyright (the image could even be PD). You can't change how anyone else uses the meme. You've not "sold" the meme in a way that means you no longer have it or couldn't sell it again. You've sold a Veblen good which symbolises to the buyer the image of the meme. However, specific trades can sometimes involve more than just the NFT (e.g. if an is copyrighted then you could also sell the copyright rights). — Bilorv ( talk ) 00:27, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Very nice research Vchimpanzee, I had no idea about practically any of this, other than that Disaster Girl was awill make a fine addition, I think!  Joe  (talk) 08:01, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll work on it, and don't expect me to get it right the first time.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  20:17, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I put it under "copyright" because the concept is very briefly mentioned. The Roths who sold the NFT received the copyright, one source said. There's not this much detail in any of the other coverage of any other meme that is an NFT, as far as I know, so describing "Disaster Girl" seems the best way to go. I start with a brief description of what it is, after saying it is an example. Then I go on to say how it became famous, and then that they had no control over what was done to it. Then there is a case where she did give permission, and finally the decision to sell. I should have included that email in my draft, but I did need to say why they would do such a thing. The results of the auction are the important detail.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  20:44, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Alright, I don't know if it's just because I now understand what you're going for better, but this seems more appropriate to me now. Thanks for the re-addition. — Bilorv talk ''') 22:04, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I realize now that I could have worded it better, but I hadn't figured out how to find a source that made it clear whether this was a major event.— User:Vchistyle="color: • talk  •  contributions  •  23:10, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Part of the "Evolution and propagation" section is hard to follow
I find parts of the first paragraph of this section hard to follow, and somewhat confusing. Here are my problems with it:

It never explains what it means by encoding and decoding on the macro level. I think it would be better if it used more common terms to explain it. The three following sentences, explaining what punctum is, do not flow very well. The whole paragraph together is hard to follow, and rather wordy.

I think that this paragraph might be better split up, or at least significantly revised, so that it is easier to understand and follow.

Met84ak (talk) 23:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

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 * Deepfyed meme "W".jpg

The image in Modern Memes
yes I took permission from the owner to post the meme Mig Pilot (talk) 07:01, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Memes created for the sake of being memes
Hello! One section of the article confuses me:

Many memes are transformative in nature as they have no relation to the original work and the motive behind the communication of the meme is personal, in terms of disseminating humor to the public; such memes, being transformative, would be covered by fair use.[109] However, copying memes that are made for the sole purpose of being memes would not enjoy this protection as there is no transformation—the copying has the same purpose as the original meme which is to communicate humorous or entertaining anecdotes.[110]

The second sentence says that memes made for the sole purpose of being memes aren't protected by fair use. However, the citation goes to https://www.barandbench.com/view-point/viewpoint-memes-copyright-got, and it seems the contrast here is on memes advertising a product commercially vs. non-commercial memes, not saying anything about "memes that are made for the sole purpose of being memes." What does the second sentence (in bold) mean? Should the sentence be rewritten? —The Sackinator (talk) 15:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Modern memes
It really feels like this is lacking in a couple major things. First, that I think the overwhelmingly most ubiquitous and longest-lasting format is the simple caption over image like this, and a visual might be helpful instead of, or in addition to, the divided images meme shown now. And second, I think it's inaccurate to say that generally memes have become more esoteric and niche, when culturally I think memes have become far more universally understood and relatable in general then they used to be. Anyone have thoughts? I'm happy to make more specific suggestions. Pyrrho the Skeptic (talk) 23:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2021
92.30.194.153 (talk) 22:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC) Memes are for laughter
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:43, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Self-referencing
I feel we should replace some of these self-referential memes. Although the MOS guideline on self-referencing refers mainly to the prose, I feel the images should count too, because, as a free content encyclopedia, we should use files suitable for mirrors and forks.

The image macro, although possibly relatable to the average reader, it is still unsuitable for external use. A lolcat meme can be used, as it is (or used to be) a popular type of image macro meme.

The modern meme example can be replaced by another that has a common theme in internet culture, such as "cereal before milk vs. milk before cereal". The images on the left could be photos of the face of an animal, the top one happy and the bottom one angry. If this meme is changed, the "W" meme should be replaced too, as it is referencing the meme above.

What do you think? ObserveOwl (talk) 07:10, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Actually, I think any apropriate non-self-referential image macro meme can be used, it doesn't need to be a lolcat. ObserveOwl (talk) 11:15, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

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 * Deplorables and Alt-Right Unite with Pepe the Frog.jpg

Removals
I suggest the sentence, "Internet memes are a medium for communicating comical images and or phrases for mass online audiences.", the first sentence of the section "By context", be removed: It doesn't seem to particularly contribute to the point at hand; rather, it seems repetitive. Also, I strongly feel the section, "Religion" (Under "By context") be expanded or removed; it provides very little information. Unless I receive objection, I intend to make these changes in the near future. ASploopyPerson (talk) 04:23, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2021
Remove gadsden flag reference as has been used on wikipedia for vandalism MCBOiS1210 (talk) 04:00, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌. Not vandalism, but could use a reference. Added one. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (talk) 08:38, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2020 and 27 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Asapdani.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 28 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): YinMajora, PSondari, Dansila.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 2 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mayxiii.

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:22, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Example of an ironic and surreal meme.jpg

add "a"
It says "Traditionally, they were a concept or catchphrase" Shouldnt it say "Traditionally, they were a concept or a catchphrase" Warpfrz (talk) 14:30, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I think either works but only having one "a" comes off as a bit cleaner. If you truly are bothered by it then make 10 constructive edits and wait four days, you'll gain permission to edit this article. -Tax Fraud! [she/they] (talk &#124; contrib.) 13:34, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Messed up reference
The second reference for this article is so long that it covers the other references. The link is also doesn't lead anywhere — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.138.206.55 (talk) 23:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing it out, I've removed the URL portion. Schazjmd   (talk)  00:24, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Lacking hyperlink
In the "Social movements" section of the "By context" section there are hyperlinks to articles on Reddit and 4chan, but not Tumblr 2A00:F41:1C54:9AB8:6EA0:FF1C:3E90:8774 (talk) 13:18, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Short "See also" section
The "See also" section is short, especially for such a long article. Also from all the memes, referenced in the article, there is only one featured in the "see also section" 2A00:F41:1C54:9AB8:6EA0:FF1C:3E90:8774 (talk) 13:36, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Media Smart Libraries
— Assignment last updated by Kelseycronin (talk) 23:25, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Maximum length of a TikTok
In the "Short video" section of the "History" section the article claims, that the maximum length of a TikTok is 3 minutes. That claim is now untrue, because TikTok changed the maximum length of a TikTok to 10 minutes. 2A00:F41:1C54:9AB8:6EA0:FF1C:3E90:8774 (talk) 13:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Are you sure? They could still be 3:00 in length. Don’t use TikTok due to security concerns, so someone else might check.2001:8003:B1B8:BF00:DC70:AC4A:4821:E057 (talk) 11:41, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Additional Source
Hello, I added in another citation to the article to expand on the introduction of internet memes. I added a quotation to the opening section that expands a little bit more on where memes come from.

An internet meme is often a "modifications or spoofs add to the profile of the original idea thus turning it into a phenomenon that transgresses social and cultural boundaries".

The citation is Bauckhage, C. (2011, July). Insights into internet memes. In ICWSM (pp. 42-49).

Internet page image inappropriate
The use of the Internet as the page image for Internet meme is inappropriate. The Internet article does not reference meme. Internet meme is a cultural/anthropological facet that happens to be propagated by the internet. The internet is secondary feature and does not play a prominent role in the definition used here, except for propagation. An image representing its anthropological significance would be more appropriate. See the Meme page, which uses Anthropology for the page image - also not succinct but underscores the cultural usage. LarryLACa (talk) 19:29, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That isn't a page image, it's the header for template:Internet, a navigational sidebar for Internet-related articles. An appropriate article-related image can be added above it. Schazjmd   (talk)  19:33, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I understand we need to highlight both Internet and Meme.  I'll wait for other comments or suggestions before making a prominent visual change. LarryLACa (talk) 19:59, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Internet meme vs. Meme
There is considerable content overlap between here: Internet meme and Meme. I added links to Meme and a generic sentence referencing Meme to the top. I didn't list Meme under See also.

Do we need a disambiguation item before the top to highlight the overlap? The two articles should remain distinct, but it's hard to see the anthropological aspect if 'Internet meme' without reading the Meme article. LarryLACa (talk) 20:08, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Media Innovations
— Assignment last updated by Mmonday17 (talk) 03:09, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Internet Memes and Religion
This mention seems unfinished, so I am going to add a source and some information about how memes are traditionally used in terms of religion. Allthewall4 (talk) 03:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

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 * Christian Meme.jpg

The most important section is missing: Why are memes a thing??
Every article I could find, including this Wikipedia one, always states how important they are and what they are and where they come from. But the whole damn entire point of them is left out like it’s a taboo at the threat of death!

I wanna know WHY (Internet) memes are even a thing at all?

I’ve thought about it quite a bit, and they seem to be completely useless. They are not funny, convey no information, give no insight… all they do is repeat a thing over and over again, unrelated to any relevancy of that original thing. Apperently for the sole self-justifying ”reason“ of repetition as long as it’s still ”fresh“. And that then supposedly makes them somehow enjoyable. Via the feeling of conformity, that somehow is considered good, or something? I don’t know.

Does anyone have any actual reseach on this? So not just his own guesses and opinions/beliefs. And could that be added as a section?

Thanks.

— 2A0A:A546:D81D:1:40ED:9B69:9B42:63C4 (talk) 23:58, 30 October 2022 (UTC)


 * It is subjective to say they are not humorous, but I do think you make a good point in asking why they are a thing. It is interesting to ponder why memes do have such a hold on us and how even as media involves and new platforms emerge, people are still drawn to these trends. I will look into this question further and it possible could be added to the overview of internet memes? Allthewall4 (talk) 03:46, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I did find some more information about what makes a meme successful, and this may give us some insight into the why.
 * Memes are adopted through the widespread replication of them. Memes must be memorable as well as transformable with the ability for anyone to create their own version. Allthewall4 (talk) 05:27, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It's perhaps written a little drily, but the Internet_meme section already covers this. Belbury (talk) 14:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Memes Moving Beyond the Internet
I have given thought into have a meme exists outside of the Internet. They have evolved to be included in our everyday language and there has even been a board game developed about them. I think this is a section worth mentioning with the examples. Allthewall4 (talk) 20:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There's an article: Meme. This article is about memes spread via the Internet. Schazjmd   (talk)  21:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Internet Memes Used in Healthcare
Internet memes have also been used to raise awareness for common healthcare concerns. This was true of the COVID-19 pandemic as healthcare professionals used internet memes to spread information on the virus and also promote use of the vaccine. Allthewall4 (talk) 00:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * , you need a reliable source that discusses the use of internet memes for that purpose. The ref you added doesn't even mention "meme". Schazjmd   (talk)  00:22, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I entered the wrong citation. It is fixed now. Allthewall4 (talk) 00:32, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

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 * Political memes.png

Origins and Early Memes Section
This section contains the line Video sharing also created memes such as "Turn Down for What" and the "Harlem Shake". Both of these were not created until 2013, and don't belong in a section about Origins and Early Memes. Wikaseki (talk) 19:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Modern memes section
Seeing how important the topic is to many subcultures, I think better sources are needed. Especially with the mid-2010s dating for dank memes, more exact terms, and the usage of dank to make those memes different from macros. GoutComplex (talk) 22:51, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2023
Change "Internet memes grew as a concept in the mid-1990s" to "Internet memes grew as a concept in the mid-late 1990s" since Hamster Dance was released in 1999. 174.55.91.169 (talk) 01:43, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ M.Bitton (talk) 23:35, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2023
Change "After the shutdown of Vine in 2016" to "After the shutdown of Vine in 2017", Vine was technically shut down January 2017.--174.55.91.169 (talk) 19:54, 4 April 2023 (UTC) 174.55.91.169 (talk) 19:54, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ M.Bitton (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

EFFECTS OF INTERNET MEMES ON PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS
Should we add a section summarizing the effects of internet memes on people's emotions? Is summarizing good for the overall quality of this wikipedia page, or would we be better off with no summarization? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:C87F:2310:84A1:E887:9766:EADF (talk) 23:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Summarizing what WP:RS say, and citing those sources as references, is exactly how Wikipedia content should be. Finding those sources is something that can be difficult. Summarizing in a way that is written in the correct WP:TONE/WP:NPOV takes practice. DMacks (talk) 03:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Add the category Mathematical Memes?
See https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cultures/mathematics

See also.

Mr. Swordfish (talk) 13:01, 10 July 2023 (UTC)