Talk:Interstate 405 (California)/Archive 1

How long is it?
Went to the article wondering just how long it was, since on my last trip to California it seemed forever long... but the information isn't on the page! Can someone seek out and add? (I would, but I don't know where to look -- I do the Illinois state highways stuff). --Rob 03:01, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

The I-405 is 73 miles long; the entire segment of the San Diego Freeway itself (which begins with the merge with SR-163 and the I-5 in San Diego all the way to the I-5/I-405 merge in the San Fernando Valley) is more than 150 miles long. --User:RobDon33 19:37, 30 August 2005

beltway?
I propose rewording the aritce to emphasize the point that the 405 is a beltway of the 5, not as being "partly designated Interstate 405, and part of Interstate 5 south of the El Toro Y." It's not "your bad" for merging it with the SD Freeway...it is, afterall, signed as the SD Freeway...


 * I don't think "beltway" is the appropriate term to descrive the 405. A beltway would imply a loop route around a major area, like the San Antonio and Houston loops.  I think the word you're looking for is bypass Floydspinky71 02:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I concur with Floydspinky71's analysis. Another example of a beltway is the Capital Beltway around Washington, D.C.  The point is that a beltway is essentially a circle, and the San Diego Freeway clearly does not go in a circle!  --Coolcaesar 02:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup?
Ok, if this article requires cleaup to conform with the Interstate Highways project, it will pretty much bean an overhaul of the page, the routebox will be changed, an exit box will be made, etc etc. It'll look like pretty much every other 3di in every other state. BUT, this article currently conforms to the California Highways Project, the routebox does and other stuff. I'm not that familiar with it, which is why i haven't changed this yet. I don't know what to do with this. Any ideas on a common ground? I have some, but they're jumbled in my mind and I don't feel like sorting them out and writing it all out. MPD01605 23:09, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Um oops. Really the structure is supposed to conform to CA... because the original purpose of the Interstate project was to have a multi-state routebox... and then it grew... so any intrastate Interstate in CA, WA, KY, NH, MO, OK, MD, and NY (I think that's it) is not part of the Interstate WP. However the mileage table and stuff like that wouldn't hurt. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs)  04:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Communities Served
The communities served section is showing up wrong for me. I am using Mozilla 1.7.12 and the lists of communities has been pushed down leaving white space with only images on the left. Is anyone else experiencing this? --Hetar 08:40, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

-- Freeway guy 789194 ( Any questions?    My updates ) 00:42, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't CA-22 also be mentioned on the I-405 infobox junctions? The 22 is also the most major junctions. You see the CA-22 is highlight in pale turquoise on the old junction tabe?

To San Diego?
I have made a few corrections to this article already...about the 405 going all the way to San Diego. But, before I made any more, or deleted or moved refernces to San Diego, I wanted to get some input.

I believe that the information about the freeway going through San Diego county should be included on the page for I-5, not the 405...since, eventhough it is signed as the San Diego Freeway, it DOES NOT go to San Diego. The terminus of the 405, and it's joining back up with the 5 is in Irvine...many miles from San Diego.

Any thoughts?


 * Thanks for catching that error. It might be worth adding a sentence that explicitly explains that, despite the name, it does not go to San Diego. Cheers, -Willmcw 06:44, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)


 * That was my bad for merging this with San Diego Freeway. Maybe this merge should be reversed. Any ideas? --SPUI (talk) 12:26, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, how about moving stuff about the I-5 part to Interstate 5 and putting at the top San Diego Freeway redirects here. For the part south of the El Toro Y, see Interstate 5.? --SPUI (talk) 13:07, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I do think that this article should be split. I-405 ends at the El Toro Y, but legally the San Diego Freeway includes both 405 and 5.
 * Maybe we should do something like the Ventura Freeway article. There is a separate article U.S. Highway 101 and California State Route 134. So I suggest that we make the San Diego Freeway into its own separate article. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that the 405 CA page should only have the part of the SD freeway that is actually on I-405. The rest should go to I-5... there is more info needed on that page about the southern ca area. --16:09, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. The San Diego Freeway generally refers to the 405 section anyway in daily use for SoCal locals. I suggest we keep the San Diego Freeway and any redirects aimed at I-405 and put a small blurb on I-5 mentioning the San Diego Freeway name for the south of Irvine section.Gateman1997 03:09, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Might I also suggest that we reword the first sentence to something along the lines of "Interstate 405, commonly referred to as the San Diego Freeway, is a ? mi long loop route of Interstate 5 that travels from....." You get the idea. I believe the article emphasis should be on I-405. San Diego Freeway is just a name that has little meaning to anyone outside the LA basin.Gateman1997 03:13, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * So what is the final decision? Keep San Diego Freeway redirected to this I-405 article, or have it on its own separate article? Based on the comments, it looks like the former is the preferred choice. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 21:56, 19 September 2005 (UTC)


 * There should be a separate article for San Diego Freeway and Interstate 405 (California) as is done with Ventura Freeway and the Escondido Freeway. Close to half of the road milage that is legally the San Diego Freeway is I-5, not I-405. Mike Dillon 23:54, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The San Diego Freeway portion of Interstate 5, and it is as deserving of an article as the Golden State Freeway and Santa Ana Freeway are. I think that it should be split to two articles, one being Interstate 405(California) which would be this article and the other being San Diego Freeway(Interstate 5), which would be a similar article to the Golden State Freeway and Santa Ana Freeway articles. San Diego Freeway would send you to a disambiguation page linking to the two articles. Theunknown42 21:38, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with the consensus here. The San Diego Freeway is defined as I-5 from Downtown San Diego to the El Toro Y and from the El Toro Y to I-5 in Mission Hills along the 405.  And as for the original question:  the 405 does not go to San Diego, but signs from Alameda Street to its southern terminus say "San Diego" on them.  Sort of like the 405 from Culver City north and all along the 170. Floydspinky71 02:53, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with ZZxyzll and Gateman to keep San Diego Fwy merge with I-405. Most infos is about I-405, and we had too little info about I-5. I had enough with Rschen7754 and his merciless undos to my changes. Can someone close this convo, the final decision is to keep San Diego Fwy merge with I-405, I'm done. Please leave it.-- Free way  guy  01:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction?
The opening paragraph says:


 * I-405 is a portion of the San Diego Freeway. The San Diego Freeway is Interstate 5 south of the El Toro Y.

I thought the 405 was the San Diego Freeway. The 405 ends at the Y when it merges with the 5. Isn't the 5 called "the Golden State"?

I'd be more assertive here, but (as outlined in the previous note) if you live there, all you ever hear is "the four-oh-five" and "the five".

DanielVonEhren 15:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The San Diego Freeway is all of I-405 plus I-5 south of the 405. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 


 * Looking closely at maps.google.com, I see you are right. The 405 is labelled as The San Diego Freeway way up at the Getty and also way down near Laguna Niguel. Up in the San Fernando Valley, the five is called The Golden State Freeway; just north of the Y, the five's label says The Santa Ana Freeway. Any idea where the Golden State changes into the Santa Ana?


 * DanielVonEhren 03:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Between US-101 and I-405, I-5 is the Santa Ana Freeway. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 


 * This is why the article on the San Diego Freeway should not have been merged with I-405 in California. It's the same reason there are separate articles for roads along Interstate 95 in New York. NE2 mentioned the fact that Interstate 495 (New York) doesn't have separate articles for the Queens-Midtown Expressway, Horace Harding Expressway and Long Island Expressway, and that Interstate 678 doesn't have them for the Van Wyck Expressway and Whitestone Expressway. But what he ignores is that neither of these roads breakaway from I-495 and I-678 the way SDF does with I-405 or Cross Bronx and Bruckner Expressways do with I-95. DanTD (talk) 16:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

About in Portland?
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.523247,-122.67643&spn=0.043117,0.111494&z=14

Maybe a disambiguation, at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.111.218.42 (talk) 17:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

"The" and "freeway"
I have a question about wlindley's edits. Upon some thought, I agree that getting rid of the "the" before "the 405" in this article is a good idea (although as a southern California resident hearing just "405" without definite article is really bizarre). But is it really necessary to replace all the occurrences of "freeway" with "highway"? I guess my question is more, is it wrong to refer to the 405 as a freeway, as opposed to a highway, and if so, why? Thanks. 71.107.101.198 (talk) 05:55, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hearing "the 405" is quite bizarre to anyone outside the L.A. basin; "405" becomes an adjective which modifies no noun whatsoever. The 405... what? The 405 bridge? Meanwhile "The I-405 freeway" expands out to "the Interstate Highway 405 freeway" which is as redundant as "Maple Road street."  Anyway... as to highway/freeway -- I suggest that "highway" be used at least for Interstate Highways as that is their formal name.  If a state wishes to call their highways "freeways" (a word until recently unknown outside California) then that's what those roads should be called.  Consistency on that may be preferable to perfection. Wlindley (talk) 13:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The freeway is always referred to as "the 405" locally, more rarely as "the 405 freeway". Which sources call it "I-405"?   Will Beback    talk    01:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * My understanding of WP:TIES is that it only references national varieties of English. It is silent on local or regional varieties. So I'm not inclined to side either way. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Carmageddon and Game Theory
Should a link to Braess's Paradox be included in an explanation as to why "Carmageddon" ended up decreasing traffic in the area? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.111.29.40 (talk) 05:23, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Lanes?
It seems like a lot of Interstate highway articles discuss lanes... number of lanes for main road, number of lanes for HOV, and the description of the interchanges and the number of flyovers. To be honest, Caltrans is a bit of an outlier in the way their freeways are built. It would be interesting to get some of the details on this particular one. The article doesn't seem to be very high quality, with the "C" grade being a bit generous. I love the obtuse comment about "movie star resident opposition" ... classic Cali-forn-I-A. I like to saw logs! (talk) 03:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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"The 405"
To a (former) resident of the area, it is jarring to see this freeway referred to as anything except "the 405". I travel around the country alot; different regions have their individual argots for roads. In SoCal, it's always "the ", never "I-405", and rarely "the Golden State Freeway". If you ask for directions, you'll hear "It's easy: take the 405 to the 605, to the 5 past downtown and hop onto the 101." "The 101" is not legally part of the Interstate system, but that's a distinction without a difference to a local.

I added the note to the initial sentence, but didn't change the rest of the article on the theory that all articles about Interstates should be consistent.

DanielVonEhren 15:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

You are completely right; however, the main reason there are Santa Ana Freeway and Golden State Freeway is because they are more detailed articles pertaining to the portions of Interstate 5 between Downtown L.A. and the El Toro Y and between California State Route 99 and Downtown L.A. respectively. See my proposal in the above discussion for my idea. Theunknown42 21:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I hadn't noticed your note. It looks like a clean, simple answer is elusive. :) I like your suggestion of a disambiguation page&mdash;for me, it would have clarified a confusing situation. No wonder people call the "the five" and "the four-oh-five". :)
 * DanielVonEhren 00:02, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

As a fellow (former) local, I agree that the most common term in the middle of the day or night is "the 405." During commuter hours, however, it is often "the 405 parking lot." DOR (HK) (talk) 01:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:USRD specifically prohibits the use of colloquial names such as "the 405", however, they are permitted "if the DOT uses it". According to a Google website search, many official PDF's posted on 'www.dot.ca.gov' makes several references "the 405"; would this qualify as "DOT" use, if the PDF's are available on the DOT website, and if so, how would these PDF's best be cited? I agree with the sentiment of users above that "the 405" is a heavily-used colloquialism in southern California, and ignoring its existence seems short-sighted. jakeroot 21:25, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know that comments made over 10 years ago represent the current consensus. --Rschen7754 01:23, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

I am a Southern California native, but in terms of style, I believe that things like "the 405" sound too informal for a Wikipedia roads article and that labels like "I-405" or "I-XX" or "SR XX" should be the default, unless otherwise proven to be acceptable. Keeping this as the default would help for clarity purposes when it comes to articles such as those about Routes 15, 110, 210, and 710, which all have both Interstate and state route designations. -- Pf1127 —Preceding undated comment added 19:25, 24 January 2019 (UTC)