Talk:Into the Wild (novel)/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Susanne2009NYC (talk) 09:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Overall, the article is well researched and answers the sorts of questions readers may ask. Here are a few concerns I have however:

Lead:
 * 1st paragraph:


 * Change "a Clan of wild cats" to "a group of forest-dwelling feral cats called ThunderClan". "Clan" alone is an in-universe term here that fans will understand, but may confuse general readers. Use "group" instead. "Feral cats" is the best choice because this is the term Holmes uses in one of the citations. A citation for this section is not needed. It is understood a plot summary is taken directly from the primary source.

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  18:20, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


 * 2nd paragraph:


 * Change "wild cats" to "feral cats". Change "but she felt the idea was limited" to "but, being a "dog person" and not a reader of fantasy novels, she felt little enthusiasm" or "she was unenthusiatic". Change "voume" to "volume". Following the "voume" sentence, add "Into the Wild is the first volume in the Warriors series".

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  18:20, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete "Kate Cary wrote [...] also write as Erin Hunter." The first sentence is a duplicate of the first sentence in the first paragraph. The second sentence is irrelevant because Cherith Baldry is not involved with this novel. Send the information to the main Warriors article. Here, it is excess baggage and may confuse general readers.

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  18:20, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


 * 3rd paragraph:


 * Change "Awards" to "Award". Send "Themes in the book range from family life to loyalty" to the end of the first paragraph.

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  18:20, 31 July 2010 (UTC) I'll return to continue the review! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 17:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

More on the Lead:


 * 1st paragraph:


 * Change "Into the Wild is a novel written by" to "Into the Wild is a fantasy novel written by".
 * Change "created and developed by Vicky Holmes" to "created and developed by Victoria Holmes". Be sure to link the name!
 * Start a new paragraph at "The story is about".
 * Link feral cats.
 * Change "receives his warrior name following a battle" to "receives his warrior name, Fireheart, following a battle". Be sure to link the name!

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  22:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


 * 2nd paragraph:
 * "HarperCollins" should not be inked here. It is linked in the first paragraph.
 * Change "Victoria Holmes" to "Holmes". Do not link. It is linked in the first paragraph.
 * "but she felt the idea was limited and as she was a dog person" reads awkwardly.
 * Using "create" and "creating" within a few words ("to create a six volume series. After creating one") reads awkwardly. I'm still uncomfrotable with the second paragraph and would prefer to see the following inserted in its stead:
 * "HarperCollins asked Holmes to write a book about feral cats, but she thought the idea limited and responded with little enthusiasm. Nonetheless, she worked with the concept and produced enough material to create a six volume series. Kate Cary was brought on board to write the first volume from a finished storyline while Holmes remained behind the scenes to edit and supervise details."

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  22:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * 3rd paragraph:
 * Move "Themes in the book range from family life to loyalty." to the end of what will be the second paragraph. This sentence is linked to the fictional world of the book and does not belong in a paragraph about real world details such as reviews, awards, and formats.

Well, I usually format the lead as: Date published, author, plot, and then a summary of the rest of the article going straight down so it would be, origins, pub history themes, reviews and then awards so I'll put the themes above the reviews part.

More on the Lead:


 * 2nd paragraph:


 * Change "join a a group" to "join a group".
 * Link feral cats.
 * Put a comma after "Fireheart".

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  01:17, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 3rd paragraph:
 * Change "when Holmes finished one writing one" to "after Holmes completed its story line".


 * Tweak this sentence a bit: "Many natural landscapes serve as inspiration for the book." Suggestions: "Several natural areas in England and Scotland (including New Forest and the woods about Loch Lomond) inspired the settings in the novel,"  or "New Forest, the woods about Loch Lomond, and other natural areas in England and Scotland inspired the settings in the novel." Use "areas" rather than "landscapes" and "novel" rather than "book".

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  01:17, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 4th paragraph:
 * I disagree with you about the placement of the sentence about the themes. It speaks of the fictional world of the novel and, for me, belongs with the paragraph about the plot summary - not with the real world information about reviews, editions, and awards. If you insist on keeping it in the fourth paragraph, set it in a real world context: Into the Wild was critically well received. Reviewers noted themes of family life and loyalty, praised the author's fidelity to feline nature, and thought fans of Brian Jacques' Redwall series would enjoy the tale."

✅ Well, when you put it like that it makes sense ;) Derild  49  21  ☼  01:17, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Change "It has also won awards and received became the 2006 Young Reader's Choice Award third place recipient" to "Among other awards, it claimed the third place 2006 Young Reader's Choice Award."

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  01:17, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

When these adjustments are made, we'll move into the main text! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 01:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * More about the Lead:


 * 1st paragraph:
 * Series titles are not italicized. Remove the italics in "It is the first novel in the Warriors series."

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  13:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 2nd paragraph:
 * Change "Themes in the book range from family life to loyalty" to "The novel's themes include family, loyalty, death, courage, and survival." "Range" suggests something with a begining and an end such as 16th century poetry to 20th century poetry. "My book collection ranges over four centuries of English poetry."

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  13:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 3rd paragraph:
 * Link New Forest and Loch Lomond.
 * Put a stop after "settings in the novel"

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  13:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 4th paragraph:
 * Change "well received with may reviewers" to "well received. Booklist believed the book would appeal to followers of Brian Jacques' Redwall series." Jacques name must be included or some readers will believe the Redwall series is by Erin Hunter. BTW, any similarity to Redwall is not mentioned in the "Reception" section. Change the awards sentence to "Among other awards, it claimed the third place 2006 Young Reader's Choice Award."

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  13:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I shall return! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 03:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * More on the Lead:


 * 4th paragraph:


 * Change "Into the Wild was critically well received well received" to "Into the Wild was critically well received."

✅ Can't believe I did that! Derild 49  21  ☼  22:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll return to review the first section! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 21:23, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Inspiration and origins:


 * "Concept and development" is a more precise title for this section.


 * Change "HarperCollins asked Victoria" to "In 2003, HarperCollins asked Victoria". De-link HarperCollins. It is linked in the lead.


 * Change "was written by Kate Cary under the pseudonym Erin Hunter and completed in about three months" to "was written by Kate Cary under the pseudonym Erin Hunter, and was completed in about three months."


 * I'm not sure "dog person" should be in quotes. Try dog lover or change "being a "dog person" and not a reader" to "having a preference for dogs and not being a reader". Use your best judgement on this.


 * The section on the locations is virtually duplicated immediately in the "Synopsis" section. Move the passage to the top of the first paragraph in the "Settings" section word for word with citations. We'll discuss it further once it's moved.


 * Culpeper's Herbal has the effect of trivia here. Move it to the plot section where any mention of the medicine cats is made. We'll discuss it further once it's moved.
 * All ✅ except I deleted the Herbal as there is nothing mentioning herbs in the article.

I'll return later! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 23:06, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Concept and development:


 * Change "being a more interested in dogs" to "being more interested in dogs".
 * Change "three months.". to "three months." Remove the q-mark and second stop at the end of the sentence.
 * Go to the lead, and begin the first sentence in the third paragraph with "In 2003,".

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  00:34, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Later! Susanne2009NYC (talk) 00:23, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm....hello? Are you busy to continue the review? Derild  49  21  ☼  01:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Pulication history, Themes, Critical Reception, Awards


 * Looks good. No problems except I wonder if being named to the 10 fantasy books for youth list and being a Book Sense 76 Pick are really awards. Maybe the section title could be changed to "Awards and recognition"? Susanne2009NYC (talk) 01:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

✅, should the section be made into a subsection of critical reception? Derild 49  21  ☼  02:01, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know. I've always preferred seeing "Awards" a separate section. I'll check the Manual of Style, but use your own judgement. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 02:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Have not found this yet. Let's go with your preference for now. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 02:43, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Synopsis
 * This is where we are going to have the greatest problems. Information in one section is duplicated in another. This is not good writing. There is no need for a "Characters" section because all the characters are linked to their summaries in another article. Because the article is appropriately short, these character descriptions can be condensed and moved directly to the plot section.


 * I will delete the Characters section but adding it within the plot will be difficult so I will just expand the Plot to make sure the information is also there. Derild 49  21  ☼  13:51, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The main thread of the novel should be stated at the top of the plot section: "The novel is about the integration of a domestic house cat called Rusty into a group of feral cats living in a fictional forest inspired by real world locales such as New Forest." The image of the forest should be placed here with the revised caption. In writing the plot, avoid in-universe vocabulary such as "kittypets". Fans will like this but general readers will find it confusing or coy. Use house pets. You actually define "kittypets" twice within the synopsis section. This is not good writing.


 * Setting
 * This section can be considerably condensed and should focus solely on the essentials. Introducing the fictional information about the various clans here is confusing. Save it for the plot section. I suggest condensing the section to read: "The novel is set in a fictional forest inspired by New Forest, the Scottish Highlands, the woods near Loch Lomond, and the Forest of Dean." Incorporate the citations appropriately and use the text as the caption in the image. In this way, you have not lengthened the article unnecessarily with duplicated information. Please try this. Susanne2009NYC (talk) 03:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, the Clans info could be made easier to understand such as adding "The forest is home to feral cats living in four groups or Clans. The four Clans are..." etc. The example could be taken away and the fact the setting stays can until Dawn can also go away. Putting all the information on the setting in the caption is not neccassarily a good idea as not readers will read the caption. I feel it should stay as it is, but taking some information out. Derild  49  21  ☼  13:51, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * A separate subsection is not necessary because the information can be incorporated into the Plot section in the first few sentences. Additionally, all the names should be trimmed because they are confusing and make it difficult to follow the plot summary. If a character is not overwhelmingly critical to the plot summary or a main character, it will be enough to refer to their function in the plot. I suggest beginning the plot section like this:


 * Into the Wild follows the integration of a house cat called Rusty into a group of feral cats living in a fictional forest inspired by the real world locales of New Forest, the woods about Loch Lomond, the Forest of Dean, and the Scottish Highlands. The group of cats are called ThunderClan, and share the fictional forest with three other groups of feral cats called RiverClan, WindClan, and ShadowClan.


 * The novel opens with a prologue that follows a battle between ThunderClan and RiverClan. (Here you should mention in a few words why they are warring). Rusty has yet to appear in the novel, but a veiled reference is made to him in a prophecy ThunderClan receives from the spirits of their ancestors: "Fire alone can save our Clan."

✅ though the first paragraph looks really out of place now... Derild 49  21  ☼  00:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The Image caption sounds awkward. Try something like: "The novel's fictional forest was inspired by several real world locales including New Forest (above)."


 * Second paragraph:
 * This paragraph can be revised. There are too many names and this was a major complaint from professional reviewers of the novel. These names need to be trimmed in the plot summary because they create confusion and weariness. There is no need to mention Bluestar by name nor Spotted leaf nor Starclan nor Sunningrocks. This is too much detail for a plot summary and all of this in-universe vocabulary will likely be confusing to a general reader and is a major "turn-off". ThunderClan is mentioned three times in this short paragraph and a synonym should be used to relieve the monotony.


 * I've placed the following into the plot as a second paragraph for your consideration. Remember the novel is about Rusty and he should be the focus of the plot summary, not minute detail and the cornucopia of names in the novel.


 * The novel opens with a prologue that follows a battle between ThunderClan and RiverClan over a strip of land. ThunderClan is outnumbered and their deputy, Redtail, calls a retreat. Rusty has yet to appear in the novel, but a veiled reference is made to him in a prophecy ThunderClan receives from the spirits of their ancestors: "Fire alone can save our Clan."

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  13:43, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The third paragraph:


 * This paragraph can be revised. All the names save Graypaw can be deleted. Begin with something like the following. This is all that really needs to be said: Following the prologue, Rusty, the novel's hero, is introduced. He is a well-bred house cat who tangles in the woods with Graypaw, a member of ThunderClan. The encounter is observed by Graypaw's two warrior companions and Rusty is invited to join the Clan. After some consideration, he accepts and is given a new name, Firepaw, because of the way his flame-colored coat shines in the sun.

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  13:43, 10 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Fourth paragraph and fifth paragraphs:


 * These are very confusing and leave a lot unanswered. Both paragraphs should be condensed and merged into a final paragraph. What happens to Tigerclaw? Why are the kittens atolen and why are they found with ShadowClan? Drop everything about Ravenpaw. This is spun out at too great length and leads nowhere. Focus on Tigerclaw. He murdered Redtail, became deputy, and what then? Was he killed by Firepaw or what? Make this very, very brief. No more than one sentence. Cut the detail and focus solely on Tigerclaw. Begin something like this:


 * "Firepaw trains as a ThunderClan warrior. He learns Tigerclaw, a deputy, murdered Redtail. (Here, tell us what happens to Tigerclaw in one short sentence, then tell us why the kittens were stolen in a short sentence)."

✅ though I had to cut out the details for a battle to keep the paragraph short. Derild 49  21  ☼  23:03, 10 August 2010 (UTC)


 * We need to know what happends to Tigerclaw. Is he killed, driven off, joins the enemy, or what? Susanne2009NYC (talk) 01:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

✅ Derild  49  21  ☼  15:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm ready to PASS the article to GA. Do you have any last minute concerns? Susanne2009NYC (talk) 20:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, thank you for your time! Derild  49  21  ☼  21:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

(a) the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct; and (b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
 * Well-written:
 * Some prose issues, but resolved. PASS.

(a) it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout; (b) it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines; and (c) it contains no original research.
 * Factually accurate and verifiable:
 * Thorough research with good sources and citations. PASS.

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
 * Broad in its coverage:
 * Forcuses on the topic without digressions. PASS


 * Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias.
 * No problem. Neutral. PASS


 * Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
 * No problem Stable. PASS

(a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and (b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
 * Illustrated, if possible, by images:
 * No prblems. PASS