Talk:Invasion of Kagera

Cooper ?
Cooper & Fontanellaz 2015 is referred to without being listed in the references.--Le Petit Chat (talk) 08:48, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * fixed. Applodion (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Identity of Lieutenant Colonel Marajani
Adding as a note here which may prove useful in the future. I've been looking into the identity of Lieutenant Colonel Marajani for some time, but have been unsuccessful. Avirgan and Honey are the only source that mention him, but considering the authoritative reputation of their work I'm loathe to discount what they say. I think it's possible that Marajani is actually Lieutenant Colonel Hussein Marijan, who was a serving as a minister in the Ugandan government at the time. Since it appears Avirgan and Honey know of Marajani only through Tanzanian intercepts of Ugandan radio transmissions, it's possible they mistransliterated his name. -Indy beetle (talk) 00:41, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I had also tried to find more about him, and suspected that his name might be mistranslated. In this book, one of the Kagera commanders is even called "Lt Col Marjan", making it very likely that "Marijan" is the officer's correct surname. One problem in regards to identifying Marajani with Hussein Marijan was that many "Marijan"s appear to have worked under Amin. I have also found "Hussein Ismail Marijani", "Juma Marijan", "Halima Marijan", "Abdalatiff Bin Mohamed Marijan" and "Kamis Marijan". Furthermore, I found it odd that none of the interviwed Ugandan officers involved in the border fighting mentioned a Marajani/Marijan/Marjan - like, at all. In general, I think a note would be the best solution. Applodion (talk) 01:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah yes I just discovered Uganda 30 years, 1962-1992 and its reference to "Marjan". I think Hussein Marijan and Hussein Ismail Marijani are the same person, and I was aware of Juma, but gee I didn't realise there were so many others! I think "Marjan" of Uganda 30 years, 1962-1992 is the only one we can put in a footnote, since that's the only source that connects the person with the events in Kagera. I still strongly suspect the real person is Hussein, since he definitely was a Lieutenant Colonel at the time, but we'll have to wait and hope that better sourcing comes up to confirm. -Indy beetle (talk) 02:29, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I also think that Hussein is the most likely candidate. The other Marijan-Guys appear to have been much smaller fishes. In fact, one cannot discount the possibility that several "Marijan"s were in fact the same person - after all, most high-ranking people under Amin appear to have used at least one alternate name (or nickname). Perhaps the Ugandan newspapers will eventually publish an interview that sheds light onto the situation. As you said, we can only hope. Applodion (talk) 11:42, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have added a bit from Omara-Otunnu to the note, who described how Marijan served at the border in 1977. Applodion (talk) 14:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

A&H: "SAM-6" versus "Strella"

 * I left a note on 's talkpage. Firstly, this is amazing work and you should both be very proud of what you've done - across all the articles. Now A&H page 59 says "A six-member team armed with Soviet-built SAM-6 shoulder-fired, heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles, commonly known as "Strella" was dispatched.." Now the SAM-6 did't exist in the Soviet arsenal - the NATO designations were SA, rather than SAM. And the SA-6 is a large tracked system. The shoulder-fired staple was the SA-7, or 9K32 Strela-2. It is listed in current service with the TPDF by IISS 2018. So A&H appear to have gotten a partially mixed-up identification, which would have been relatively easy; they weren't army officers. What I would recommend is that you two drop the "SAM-6" part of the sentence and just link the "Strella" part. Cheers and and my warmest congratulations and thanks for all your hard work.. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:59, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I corrected the mistake. In fact, Cooper & Fontanellaz actually say that the Tanzanians were equipped with SA-7 MANPADs. The two are military historians, and mostly reply on A&H for information - as they deviate from A&H in this regard, the latter were probably indeed mistaken. I have fixed the error and added the C&F page in question. Applodion (talk) 11:22, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, Tom's an aircraft nut - that's a compliment - but goes well beyond the usual anorak!! Yes, if they emphasize the Strella rather than "SAM-6" part of the designation here they'd be doing the right thing!! Buckshot06 (talk) 11:26, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for noticing the detail - Soviet military history is not my specialty. I agree with 's assessment; Avirgan and Honey were journalists, while Cooper & Font do more military research, so their ID here of the weapon is preferable. Not the first time I've encountered this issue with them; they made an apparent mistake in IDing some Tanzanian tank types as well. That said though, their work is still superb and their narrative and analyses of events is praised by nearly all other scholars who explicitly mention them. -Indy beetle (talk) 21:31, 9 January 2020 (UTC)