Talk:Ion Negoițescu

Thanks
Thanks to Biruitorul and Ronline for fixing my stupid mistakes - keep digging, gentlemen, there's bound to be more in an article this size :). Dahn (talk) 13:16, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries. Thanks for expanding this article! I didn't know of Negoiţescu; it's a very valuable addition to Romania's LGBT history. Ronline ✉ 14:29, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Lifestyle choices
Hi. I'm writing in relation to the sentence about sexual orientation and/or lifestyle choices causing a rift between the young Negoițescu and his parents. I have read the sources (perhaps not carefully enough) and I agree that they are very ambiguous. Indeed, they don't even make the causal link between 1) his sexual orientation, 2) a negative reaction on his parents' behalf and 3) suicide attempts. This source mentions the suicide attempts without any direct background, aside from describing Negoiţescu as eccrentric, "rău, "turbat". This one makes a general reference to "sexual precocity". My question, then, is what lifestyle choices in particular were responsible for the conflict between Negoiţescu and his parents? Was it his homosexuality and his "sexual precocity"? Or was it all this and his broader eccentricity during adolescence? If this can reasonably be implied from the sources, then it should be stated specifically. I think the term "lifestyle choices" is problematic for two reasons. Firstly, it is too general (the reader naturally asks themselves, "What lifestyle choices?"). Secondly, the expression is a very loaded one, particularly in US English; homosexuality is often talked about as a "lifestyle choice" or a "gay lifestyle" by the Christian Right. Thanks, Ronline ✉ 14:27, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned in my edit summary, I share those concerns, but I don't know how to best approach this. The way I see it from the sources, the parents were upset by his "scandalous" behavior, and this may or may not include his homosexuality - it could just be that they tolerated the thought of him being gay, but not the thought of him "flaunting" it, particularly since he was underage. Then again, it is possible (but unlikely) that they did not even know he was a homosexual, and that they rather objected to his generic disregard for conventions. I was faced with this dilemma when I wrote the original version, and decided to go with "lifestyle choices" as an umbrella term; obviously, it was a bad idea, since it unwittingly pointed readers to the "why did you people chose to be gay?" agenda (which I too find objectionable). How about "disregard for convention"? Dahn (talk) 15:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think "disregard for convention" is better. My only remaining issue is that the location of the sentence, combined with the word "However", implies that the particular issue at hand was his sexual orientation, even if this was not necessarily the case. In this context, "his disregard for convention" is implied to be his decision to disclose his sexual orientation and not deny it (this being the topic of the previous sentence). I don't have an issue with this, since I think that describing this as a "disregard for convention" is probably factually correct (in a society and time period where not disclosing one's homosexual orientation was "conventional"). I'm just thinking that maybe we should also refer to the other ways in which he disregarded convention, since it is ambiguous from the sources whether his coming out was the key issue. I don't really have a clear solution yet; perhaps we could insert something along the lines of "his disregard for convention, including his early sexual experiences, caused a rift". Ronline ✉ 13:42, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I see your point. Well, I tried to make a paragraph out of it and "devolve" the context. Let me know what you think. Dahn (talk) 16:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that last change is great! Thanks :) I've just made a slight edit, adding "at the time". Also, I think it flows better if there's no new paragraph. Ronline ✉ 03:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I myself generally dislike short paragraphs - in this case, I thought it could strengthen the honi soit qui mal y pense required. But if you say it's okay, I really have no problem with the current version of that section. Dahn (talk) 04:21, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

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