Talk:Iori Yagami/Archive 1

A few questions.
In the section about the KOF '95 ending, and what point does it mention that Leona is Yagami's Fiancee?
 * That bit must have been wrong. The only point Iori has in common with Leona is that both can enter the Riot Of Blood state and have Orochi blood in their veins, but else their personal stories never crossed before the KOF tournament.

Besides, Leona is known to have a liking for Clark (through some official SNK art gallery).

Also: Isn't the whole "Imagay" anagram a bit silly to add in? As far as I know, it's just something that english-speaking fans use as sort of a joke. (Because considering the original Japanese the games were in, the reversal would be more like "Migaya")

Thank you for your questions. You are right, Leona isn't Iori's fiancee. I'll look into that right now, thanks.

No, Leona loves Chang. Stated in the KOF 98 PSX image galleries and other few references.

Ill recheck the imagay thing and write again.

I checked and couldn't find any reference whatsoever to the things that you mention. Can you please point them out for me so I can check and change if necessary? I didn't find any paragraph mentioning that Leona is Iori's lover, just the HK comics where Iori is about to fight her, is that what you mean? and I didn't find anything about the imagay thing.

Pictures
Yes, the collage of pictures are nice, but don't you think they're excessive..? There's not really a reason for them to be here. Could someone provide proper concensus for inserting all these picures into the article..?-MegamanZero 3:51 27,November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry but I have to disagree strongly. All the images are between the context of the next one, and they wouldn't have the same impact if one of them was missing. Believe me, I selected them VERY carefully, and they HAVE a reason to be there. All of them. Each one shows Iori under different points of view and offers a different feeling that complements the others.- &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheOgry (talk &bull; contribs).


 * My apologies, but that's no where near a good enough concensus to keep them here. As such, I've opened up a deletion arbiration agaist them. Please feel free to join in the resulting discussion regarding the images.-MegamanZero 9:49 8,December 2005 (UTC)

Iori's Name
I was just wondering, if Iori's name should be added in the trivia part, since "iori" means hermitage (seeing that Iori is always a loner and more or less isolated from society by choice and because of his curse). I'm asking here, instead of just adding it in the article, since I'm not much of a KOF player... I've played it less than 10 times, and I don't know all that much about the character. --Hecko 02:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

MegamanZero insists in changing arbitrarily the layout of the page to his likings
And he does it ignoring the reasons and more importantly, erasing the work of many people, including myself, Klantis, 305Prodigy, among many others that have contributed to this page. He has also vandalized my name in several articles by changing it's spelling. How can I report this to the moderators? can anybody tell me please? Now I'm going to reproduce a question that I made in his talk page. MegamanZero, this is going to be fun. I'd like you to tell me, please, if you know where the image "tears" comes from, specifically from what source, or where it is seen. Lantis don't tell him. MegamanZero you said: "This is where it gets surreal. That image simply depicts Iori crying or bleeding for some apparent reason; I can only speculate to the reason of its upload. Furthurmore, There's no mention of the pic's sembelence anywhere in the article." You use big words in vain. You lack the knowledge required to decide in this matter if you don't answer correctly. Take a look at the part of the "story" section where it is located. Do you seriously ignore where the pic comes from? BTW, a clue: all the pictures illustrate parts of the story, or parts of different moments of Iori's personality. TheOrgy 16:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC) Do you know the answer? where does the image "Tears.jpg" come from? where did I take it from? TheOrgy 16:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * No I haven't. Now stop being a silly sausage.MegamanZero 15:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Image placement vote
Since TheOrgy believes there is a consensus supporting the inserting of fancruft-related images and mass amounts of quotes(or any deviation on that theme), I figure the best way to resolve this is with a vote. Voting will be allowed for one week from the time this is opened (see signature date on this posting). A simple majority (50%) will be used to determine the outcome. The question being voted upon is--

Should this The Orgy's version or the old version be more suited for the article..?

Please register your vote by typing in or below. Please limit discussion to the Discussion subsection of this voting area. Thank you for participating.

No, no, no, no, no. Polls are evil. Let's discuss the issue and come to a consensus. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 18:49, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * We already attempted that matter, and its obvious TheOrgy will continue to think on WP:POV basis. So, this is the only way I see how to resolve it.-MegamanZero 19:01, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * So you file a RfC or try to work out a compromise. We have a process for resolving disputes, and "voting" isn't part of that process. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 19:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Eh? Sure it is, and it's actually called "polling"– Polling guidelines. —Locke Cole 20:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Right, and it's a way to gauge everyone's opinions. It's not a vote because the results aren't binding, and because it doesn't work by means of majority rule. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 20:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that there's really only one result thats going to come of this poll, and that is that it will possibly establish parties for a mediation or simmilar course of action later on.-- Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 21:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Odd.. I thought another possibility was that a consensus would be shown to support one edit over the other. —Locke Cole 21:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * UPDATE- Please note the Orgy continues to change the selected versions to his liking, if he does so, please do not hesitate to revert; he is changing the thesis and end-product of his actions to garner votes in his favor. Altering the versions is vandalism. The selected versions above shall be used throughout the entire polling process. Thank you. -MegamanZero 21:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Old version

 * The Old version, it doesn't contain needless amounts of quotes (which could go to wikiquotes) and the images in there are the only needed to explain the bare facts and concensus of the article. Also note that TheOrgy's version contains no subtitles on the pictures, meaning thier exsistence for being thier is WP:POV.-MegamanZero 17:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe that the Old version should be reverted to. After having a look at the page, it does contain excessive images and quotes. Images should be used more sparingly. The purpose of images in an article is to illustrate, not for vanity. And most of the quote section needs to be deleted and tranferred to wikiquote, if there is not already an entry there. The quote problem can then be solved by simply keeping any notable quotes, and adding "Wikiquote" in brackets in the external links section, in order to direct the reader to any other quotes by the character that may be of interest. The Wookieepedian 18:10, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Old version - QUOTES GO ON WIKIQUOTES, thats pretty much the end of that right there, and the images are definitely in excess. This is not a fansite, it is an encyclopedia article.  Not to mention that fair use on wikipedia requires a limited number of low resolution images.  Both the quotes and the pictures are in extreme excess.  The pictures NEED SUBTITLES. Thats almost accepted as standard on wikipedia.  Images are also sized way to big.  It puts unnecessary strain on the servers, and is not pleasing to they eye at all.  Lets not forget either that for people browsing at lower resolutions at least a couple of those pics will be LARGER than their screen. - Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 19:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Old version, as stated above. A large number of quotes belong on Wikiquotes and a large number of images should be avoided because it causes slow-down and makes the article look messy. ~ Hibana 19:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

New version

 * The New Version (TheOrgy's version), it contains absolutely needed pictures to show the different aspects of Iori Yagami's personality while it also illustrates accurately the parts of the story where they are located. Each one is thought carefully to complement the other and, as a result, they show Iori Yagami's different faccets with the desired effect to inform the reader better about everything that the character encloses. The subtitles in the pictures appear proper when the public is reading the article (the story) and watches them afterwards. The quotes are the work of KLantis, and not mine, but although I'm not all for their bold classification, I don't find any reason to take them off either, unlike MegamanZero. TheOrgy 18:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Vote for TheOrgy's version - vote by Raul
 * Weak Support. Both versions of this article are quite simply horrible. The prose is a monstrosity, the formatting inept. For all that, I think Orgy's is slightly less awful, or to put it another way, could more easily be trimmed down and improved than the "old version". Needless to say, some of the pictures have to go, and the quotes moved to Wikiquote. --Maru (talk) Contribs 19:10, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Raul You have failed to state a comment on the respective decision-please do so or your vote will be invalid. Thanks. -MegamanZero 20:49, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You need to sign your comments also a la 4 tildes(~), as its important to be on the lookouts of any forms of sockpuppetry while conducting a vote or poll-- Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 20:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

MegamanZero, don't comment anything here! don't you understand? this is for voting, not for your comments! And wasn't you the one that said: "Please register your vote by typing in *Orgy version - optional reason or *Old version - optional reason below. Please limit discussion to the Discussion subsection of this voting area. Thank you for participating." ??? what did you write "optional" for, then, huh? TheOrgy 21:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Calm down, children. Go to your rooms. Time out. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 21:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Got news, the whole poll is obviously null and void for various reasons anyway. Also, Upon thinking about it to a further extent, "raul" who doesn't even seem to exist, didn'e copy the format either so the point is still valid.  Either way it doesn't matter because its still a poll thats not going to forma  consensus anyway.

Discussion

 * Oringinally written by Marudubshinki: "I think maybe we have too many quotes. Perhaps we should move them to Wikiquote"
 * Indeed, that's too many quotes to be warranting, also note that the pictures TheOrgy inserted were done clearly in WP:POV, as they were inserted over everyone's previous edits, and furthurmore without anyone else's concensus.


 * Funny, I could have sworn I wrote that about Mai Shiranui, not Iori. Actually going through the edit history, I don't seem to've ever editted this article before. --Maru (talk) Contribs 19:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Oringinally written by Dstorres: "Demanding, isn't he? I noticed he didn't mention that he had no problems erasing the images I originaly placed for Kyo & Iori."
 * A clear example of theOrgy's lack of knowing for wikipedia policies and other's viewpoints, not to mention hardwork.
 * And when I inquired about why he blatantly came in and erased other's work, while not asking for concensus, he replied: I am the author of the pictures, and I demand that YOU stop interfering with my work. You DO NOT have any right to ERASE ANYTHING, you're free to discuss anything you want but, seeing as how you're a megaman fan (capcom game), it is pretty evident that you're not qualified to discuss about KOF stuff (which is SNK's)., showing just how established his POV viewpoint and lack of manners had become.-MegamanZero 18:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to comment that his supposed "old" version is his real old version mixed with my pics. IF you want your real "old" version back MegamanZero I'll be glad to remove all the pics and the story that Klantis wrote as well. This is your real old version, and I'm going to change it now to the alternatives:

] -TheOrgy


 * Proof that his stance in this is motivated mainly by whim and having his own way, even if it means bypassing policy. I've exposed all of this and a lot more on his part in the debate above, which he'll surely find excuses for shortly; its obvious he began construction out of good faith, then began to become obcessed with "owning the article".-MegamanZero 18:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to comment that his supposed "old" version is his real old version mixed with my pics. IF you want your real "old" version back MegamanZero I'll be glad to remove all the pics and the story that Klantis wrote as well. This is your real old version, and I'm going to change it now to the alternatives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami&oldid=28841849

Umm, MegamanZero, you're attacking me personally again. I asked you a vital question of if you knew where the "Tears" picture came from, and you couldn't answer. That means that you don't know enough about the story of the character, that disqualifies you to make a better and more informative article.

I erased ONE picture, the OrochiIori one, and everybody seemed to agree with it's departure since nobody reverted the picture back to the article EXCEPT YOU. There was a silent consensus, without having to reach this instances. TheOrgy 18:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * There was no "personal attack" and there certainly was no "silent concensus". It is not up to you to reach concensus alone. Its the calloboated efforts of all the editors, and furthurmore, none of the pictures you have inserted have brought the article up to a higher standard of quality whatsoever. Finally, The Orochi Iori image is perhaps one of the most imortant parts of the article-it is one of the reasons for his outlook on life and depicts his cursed heritage; so in that case, you have even less grounds to claim you were "improving".-MegamanZero 18:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

This is the last page before I EVER came to edit anything in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami&oldid=29158917

this should be the "old version" that should be displayed in the voting. TheOrgy 19:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make any sense at all. It has nothing to do when you started editing it, it has to do with a substantial change that was made, especially without adequately discussing it BEFOREHAND.  It is my opinion that you are just asserting that claim in order to tilt the voting unethically. -- Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 19:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If we just discussed the issue instead of voting we wouldn't waste our time with these side issues. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 19:39, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, Orgy, stop changing my version to the one you feel should be put to. It is considered vandalism to mess with another's writing. I put that up as the version I picked, and keep it that way. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have agreed to this.-MegamanZero 20:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

As someone with absolutely zero involvement in this (prior to this posting anyways), I can say that TheOrgy's version either has way too many images, or the images are all way too large. The "old version" also stretches my tolerance for large images in articles, but it's not nearly so bad. While polling may be evil, it's also sometimes a kick in the pants to reach a compromise. (Noting I haven't voted yet, but would vote for the old version if a compromise isn't reached somewhat quickly). —Locke Cole 20:58, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

MegamanZero, then edit your post to show MY real version, and not the one that you want to show about me. I DON'T WANT THE FLOOD OF QUOTES, BUT YOU INCLUDED THAT IN MY "VERSION" OF THE ARTICLE DIDN'T YOU? TheOrgy 20:59, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Call me confused. You just said that you wanted the quotes in the article. So, now that this thesis is against your respective version, you think there's a problem. I don't have to edit my post to anything you say. You can't give me demands.-MegamanZero 21:02, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

While I think MegaManZero's version is better (not great either though). I'm not voting, and would like to point out that this vote can only be used as a straw vote to reach consensus, and cannot be binding. See What Wikipedia is not. Jacoplane 21:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Image size, number, and placement, and quotes
We don't need gigantic images cluttering the page. For the love of God, learn to use. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 18:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, Voting is evil, and it appears to be TheOrgy against everyone else AND against whatever Wikipedia standards we have. I've fixed the article, keeping most of the images (I removed one--if someone wants to reinsert it somewhere else that's fine) and removing the quotes section. I did add the WQ template so the quotes can be re-added where they belong. TheOrgy, rough consensus seems clearly against you, so without discussing and establishing a consensus beforehand you would be well-advised not to revert. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 18:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

First, only a hour has passed, and Wookipedian is MegamanZero's friend. There's still one week ahead of voting, don't jump into conclussions so quickly. TheOrgy 18:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That's where I must agree- the discussion is not over yet, and I'd still like to hear more opinions on the situation. Oh, and BTW, TheOrgy, this is not valid for the discussion. If you read, I put "old version", not "last version by me", as its clear you did make constructive edits (as well as K lantis), until you decided to ignore everyone else and have a "silent concensus" (read: your way) -MegamanZero 18:49, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I can't accept that. That is the version that YOU were talking about before, where I removed images and changed the format with my self proclaimed concensus according to you. The proof that most people were fine with the design that I gave is that nobody changed it and even YOU are using it now to claim that it is the old version. Guess what, it is all my work, and I can erase it if I want to, and you'll be left with what? with: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami&oldid=28841849 which is the version that the page had before I came here and tried to enrich the article with my knowledge and my resources about the subject. TheOrgy 19:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I personally don't care about the number of images—my problem is that they were oversized. The quotes have been relocated to Wikiquote, with a clear link at the end of this article. You and your videogamecruft friends can argue over the other issues however you want—I've done my part in improving this article. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 18:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Voting is evil, and is quite assuredly not the way we do things on Wikipedia. I'm well within my rights to ignore it and go by rough working consensus and policy instead. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 18:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Rough concensus... rough concensus from MGZ's friends right? I'd rather wait for different contributions to broad the range of concensus TheOrgy 18:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't even know MegamanZero, and I'm puzzled as to how I was roped into this. And the central issue in this—the number of images—is something I don't care about. But Wikipedia standards pretty clearly require quotes to be moved to Wikiquote, and the images were just too big for the layout to work well. — Phil Welch Katefan's ridiculous poll 18:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Phil here. K1Bond007 19:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call him a friend, and at least I would affirm I didn't come here with any bias. I've edited on the same articles as him a lot, thats all.  And it would be noted that we've probably disagreed/argued on things as often as we've come to a consensus.  The truth is the article is just quite vain and POV.-- Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 19:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

mgz keep your comments out of the voting. TheOrgy 21:02, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I clearly stated in the rules of the poll to add a comment with one's decision; and you have no authority to move anything I have written; it is vandalism. Please stop.-MegamanZero 21:06, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup Needed
As a person who knows nothing about Iori Yagami, I am an ideal person to comment on this page. The page itself is too large. I can get a general jist from the first paragraph that this Mr. Yagami is a videogame character from Kingo of Fighters. However, the rest of the article seems more of a story than a page where you can search for information.

It is bewildering large with a large number of pictures that haven't been shrunk to thumbnail size. The numbers in itself make this page unfriendly to dial-up users, of which I know there are many, having up until recently been one of them. Many of the pictures do not convey any information that the first one does not.

I don't like either version of the article and if I had the time and the knowledge (of which I have neither), I would re-organise the entire thing to fit the following template:


 * *Introductory Paragraph
 * (already present)
 * *Character Synopsis
 * *Character History
 * *Character Backstory
 * (Legend of the Yagami is too vague a title)
 * *Character Personality
 * *Games in which Character Appears
 * *Trivia
 * *See Also
 * *External Links
 * *References

I would also have a better choice of pictures. There should be only one of each game incarnation of Iori, one from each game in which he appeared and they should be thumbnails to make the page easier to load. In fact, this page is so horribly made I'm slapping a cleanup tag on it right now. Wolf ODonnell 19:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * One picture for each illeteration..?! Are you aware that there are multiple KOF games..? Almost as many MM games, Wolf..?-MegamanZero 19:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Of course I'm not freaking aware of how many KOF games there are (didn't you read my above post?). My one of each game incarnation is frankly a maximum limit suggestion not a minimum. And frankly, I resent you putting your comment within my comment. That just makes things as confusing as the current article itself. Wolf ODonnell 19:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

A writer needs heart to write good info. Objectiveness is not always the best way to write an article. Not everything can be gray. I want this article to have many colours, not just gray. That's what I'm trying to do. If this was wrong, then for example, every article about legends of the music or artists should be changed to eliminate every phrase that says that they were the best in something, because nobody holds the right to establish what's good and what isn't, because everybody has a different point of view. Graphic bias is even less harmful. It informs more, either to the opposite or the benefit of the character, but always inside the context of true and existant information.

About the pic excess: just look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_Naruto. Now THAT really is excess. TheOrgy 19:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Just a note so you understand finally: I don't want the quotes like that. They should be there, but without the titles for each year. Don't mention the quotes thing as if it was MY version because it ISNT, it is the page that everybody had agreed seemingly upon until MegamanZero started changing it again, and even himself had agreed to not remove the images, but to only remove the quotes. This http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami&oldid=29488822 is the version of the page that I wanted. TheOrgy 19:59, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * No one agreed on anything. You did. And speaking for myself, I did not say I wasn't not going to touch anything. Don't put words in my mouth. -MegamanZero 20:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * One example of something in more exess doesn't fix this. If you do thinki thats exess, fix it.  If you think its okay, then find more than one example.  One example doesn't establish precedent.  Also, there is a difference between writing colorfully/with heart than there is to being inobjective.  As far as some musicians being regarded as the best unsupportedly then fix them if you want, but dont use it as an excuse to violate NPOV.  Its like "that man killed someone and didn't get convicted, so you can't convict me"  (sorry for the unoriginal example).  It doesn't work that way.  And regarding others of those musicians/bands, and establishing what's good and not, they have been cited by an authority of music, or by publicly aknowledged commitee to be good/great/the best/etc.  And I'm sorry, but as far as wikipedia is concerned, Objectiveness is the best way to write an article  You choose to be a part of the project and stand by those rules, if you don't agree with those rules, maybe you dont really want to be editing wikipedia.

The difference with the Naruto Character list is that one has one for each character. This article has several for each character. And if you're not writing objectively, then I might need to add some other tags, like the neutrality dispute tag. Wolf ODonnell 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I didn't say that I wasn't writing objectively. I said that I wasn't adding pictures objectively. How could I? to offer a better information to the readers, and to make the profile better and more enjoyable, you have to be biased towards the greatest aspects of the personality of the character, in this case this videogame character. In simple words, the better you make him look, the better the article about him looks, and in this case, the better that the readers are informed of his personality in an entertaining manner, rather than an uninteresting and careless manner. TheOrgy 20:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes but that has nothing to due with objectivity, which I might point out is what your whole previous statement emphasized. The point is that the pictures make the article look worse, not better. They overcrowd it, add a lot of unnecessary strain onto the servers, and dont format well. A couple of those images in your version are big enough that on a low resolution monitor, they will take up almost the whole screen. As a matter of fact two of them do just that. A prime example of a well executed article about a video game character, with a consertative well thought out use of images is here Helena (DOA. The other DOA character articles are all reasonably well done as well, but this is probably the best example.  It follows what you clain you are trying to do, but shows restraint, something that this article painfully needs.-- Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk 20:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)