Talk:Irakly Shanidze

OTRS
This article is based on a text that has been provided under cc-by-sa 30. See OTRS ticket OTRS:2011010410015712

--Neozoon 22:46, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the invitation, but like most potential readers of this discussion page I have no access to OTRS tickets..


 * Here is the early history of the article, which shows that it was built up by you, before others took over. The fact that it was built up, edit by edit, makes it look different from most OTRS cases; and above, you don't start to explain this. So:


 * What do you mean by "based on"?
 * A text written by whom? Where?


 * Hoary (talk) 01:35, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Additionally, how was this early version of  [[User talk:Iraklyshanidze] ] related to the process by which this article was constructed? -- Hoary (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The early version is a text that I received. It has been released under cc-by-sa 30 (permission in the OTRS ticket). I did put this text as article start into the en.wikipedia. Best regards --Neozoon 01:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Where did you receive it from? Who wrote it? Who released it under cc-by-sa 30? Simple questions, needing only simple answers. -- Hoary (talk) 01:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I am NOT Irakly Shanidze. I found the article in French Wikipedia and requested an original from the author, Tim Ashley, a British photography expert. He also is not related to Mr. Shanidze -- lokfront Lokfront (talk) 18:56, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * In the ticket is the article and the information that the article was written by Tim Ashley and released into public domain. The article was send by Irakly Shanidze. Best regards --Neozoon 19:17, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * So Ashley wrote it. Was it published somewhere? &para; User:Iraklyshanidze first posted the article on 4 January 2011. It was then built up by Neozoon and moved here on 16 February, whereupon Iraklyshanidze moved in. This contribution of Iraklyshanidze was why I added the "autobiography" warning flag, which was later removed by Lokfront. &para; Lokfront, I wonder why you write "I am NOT Irakly Shanidze" -- I hadn't suggested that you were. (However, this denial of yours interests me. The Russian version of the article was created by you, whose interests in ru:WP seem just as narrow as your interests here.) -- Hoary (talk) 09:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a feeling that you yourself logged in as iraklyshanidze and made changes to the article in order to blow the whistle later. Why did you do this? Personal issues with the photographer, or there is something that I don't know yet?
 * Diligence with which you are pursuing this issue raises serious suspicions, especially when compared to amount of work that you had put into your articles Enzo Sellerio, Masato Seto, Akihide Tamura, Hiroshi_Yamazaki, Camera Mainichi, Nippon_Camera
 * At this point, the issue is obviously resolved, as the English text has been changed almost entirely, which is why i removed the autobiography tag. If there is something else you would like to discuss, let me know.
 * I, however, have some questions to you.
 * 1. You seem to be rushing with judgements without researching the topic thoroughly enough. You state that It was Irakly Shanidze who first post it, which is not true. It was first posted by Mr. C. Jarebek in French Wikipedia. You really did not know this, or you are withholding the knowledge? What is it, incompetence, or ethics?
 * 2. Your curiosity and eagerness in this particular case raises serious suspicions about your impartiality in this matter. Would you kindly explain yourself?
 * 3. You accused me in narrowness of my interests based upon my work on a biography of one photographer. Why? Because Mr. Shanidze happened to be the first among a number of Russian-speaking photographers about whom I am planning to write? Are we having an ethnical issue here?
 * 4. Articles that you personally wrote stroke me as utterly uninformative. This again makes me want to ask: do you know what you are doing? Are you an amateur? Lokfront (talk) 17:36, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * What a remarkable message!


 * Have a feeling that you yourself logged in as iraklyshanidze and made changes to the article in order to blow the whistle later. Why did you do this? Personal issues with the photographer, or there is something that I don't know yet?


 * Ah, so User:Iraklyshanidze is me! So it was me who first posted the article, over one year ago. If User:Iraklyshanidze is me, then I suppose he'd have been a "strawman sock", contrary to Wikipedia policy. Would you care to have this investigated?


 * Diligence with which you are pursuing this issue raises serious suspicions, especially when compared to amount of work that you had put into your articles Enzo Sellerio, Masato Seto, Akihide Tamura, Hiroshi_Yamazaki, Camera Mainichi, Nippon_Camera


 * Yes, they're pretty terrible, aren't they? I like to think that the quality of my editing has improved since those bad old days. (What do you think? Am I getting any better?) But yes, they are embarrassing. So I chose one of them, Nippon Camera, and did a bit of work on it just now.


 * At this point, the issue is obviously resolved, as the English text has been changed almost entirely, which is why i removed the autobiography tag.


 * Oh, but if the article was written by somebody called Tim Ashley, then it wasn't an autobiography in the first place. I'm still wondering, though, who this Ashley is. (The photographer Tim Ashley? The Guardian music critic Tim Ashley?) I'm also wondering where he had it published, and just who it was who sent it to OTRS. But as for the degree to which it has been changed, it has gone all the way from


 * Professional projects in the field of Advertising Photography vary between the ‘straight’ (though rarely totally so) style of well-lit and executed studio work and the intricate application to commercial purposes of his subversive and symbolic style, sometimes involving complex pseudo-real setups intended to imbue the product with the spontaneity and style of street life. A good example of the latter is his recent collection of images created for Japan Tobacco International as a symbolic representation of their brand “Sobranie”. (January 2011)


 * to


 * Professional projects in the field of Advertising Photography vary between the ‘straight’ (though rarely totally so) style of well-lit and executed studio work and the intricate application to commercial purposes of his subversive and symbolic style, sometimes involving complex pseudo-real setups intended to imbue the product with the spontaneity and style of street life. His recent collection of images created for Japan Tobacco International as a symbolic representation of their brand “Sobranie” showcases the latter. (today)


 * The technical term for this kind of change is "very minor".


 * You seem to be rushing with judgements without researching the topic thoroughly enough. You state that It was Irakly Shanidze who first post it, which is not true. It was first posted by Mr. C. Jarebek in French Wikipedia. You really did not know this, or you are withholding the knowledge? What is it, incompetence, or ethics?


 * I don't remember saying anything about the relative timing of the French and English articles. (Does this perhaps mean that I am incompetent and unethical?)


 * Your curiosity and eagerness in this particular case raises serious suspicions about your impartiality in this matter. Would you kindly explain yourself?


 * I'm very partial to an encyclopedia that consists of material added by people who contribute disinterestedly. I'm very partial to the deletion of promotional material.


 * You accused me in narrowness of my interests based upon my work on a biography of one photographer. Why? Because Mr. Shanidze happened to be the first among a number of Russian-speaking photographers about whom I am planning to write? Are we having an ethnical issue here?


 * You know, in my years of editing here, I have never encountered a disinterested editor who demonstrated such a sustained, single-minded interest in the biography of one person, and across more than one Wikipedia, too. There could always be a first time, of course. Maybe you are that unprecedented, disinterested person. I look forward to seeing evidence that you are.


 * Articles that you personally wrote stroke me as utterly uninformative.


 * Above, you present several embarrassingly horrible examples of my work. Among them, let's look at the one I most recently looked at. Here it is, in the form in which I had left it until somebody fiddled with its categories and I edited it today. If it informs you of nothing, I can only infer that you have at least a passing knowledge of photography in Japan. This is rare among people outside Japan, and I'm happy to learn of it. Perhaps you'd like to work on relevant articles. What are your areas of interest in Japanese photography?


 * This again makes me want to ask: do you know what you are doing? Are you an amateur?


 * I am not qualified to judge my knowledge of what I'm doing. You'd better ask others. (If you believe that there's a serious problem, here's one place where you might bring it up.)


 * My status here? Of course amateur! Aren't you an amateur as well? If you have reason to believe that I am a professional (that I am doing it for money), then you should quickly alert others here. -- Hoary (talk) 06:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

One among the awards
The article tells us:


 * # 2011 Trierenberg Super Circuit, gold medal portrait category, 5'2011

This page shows that prizes for "Trierenberg Super Circuit" (of which I had not previously heard) went to a great number of people. Further, it advertises:


 * The brand new book of the the contest. 504! pages, 1.900! reproductions. A limited hard cover luxury edition

(Their exclamation points, not mine.)

This smells to me like a vanity award. Lots of people pay to enter, lots of people win, it goes on the winners' CVs to impress the gullible.

I hope to learn that I am mistaken. Evidence? -- Hoary (talk) 01:26, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

a SuperCircuit banner is on a front page of FIAP web site User:Lokfront  —Preceding undated comment added 23:32, 4 January 2012 (UTC).
 * Trierenberg competition is by no means a vanity award. it is a FIAP recognized contest held since 1992. I hope that you know what FIAP is. It is not unusual to have a catalog of 1000 pictures in a contest with more than 10,000 entries.

Ah, so the organization pays for advertising on the top page of FIAP. No, I'd never heard of FIAP, but Wikipedia has. But no matter. What press or other coverage is there of these "Trierenberg competitions"? Or does any photographer who's indubitably eminent (non-vanity-published books, major exhibitions) put a win on their CV? I ask because here in Japan the Photographic Society of Japan awards are unusual in going to as many as 15 people in one year (the Domon Ken Award is much more normal in going to just one person). -- Hoary (talk) 01:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

FIAP is a non-profit organization, which does not take paid advertising. Salons under FIAP patronage historically have taken place all over Europe (and recently around the world), and legitimate venues are listed on the site. In particular, Trierenberg Cuper Circuit is featured here http://patronages.fiap.net/M2011.htm in April 2011.

Most of your doubts about FIAP legitimacy are addressed in the English article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fédération_Internationale_de_l%27Art_Photographique

As an example of a well-known photographer who won Trierenberg several years in a row: http://www.alexbernasconi.com/home.htm -- lokfront Lokfront (talk) 18:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 7 external links on Irakly Shanidze. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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