Talk:Iran–Israel proxy conflict/Archive 1

Support from US
Definitely we should mention the support Israel is getting from US. I even think it wouldn't be a bad idea to describe the conflict as Israel+US vs. Iran, as these two countries have very similar aims and support each other unconditionally in the conflict. So far Iran–United States relations is the only page about this topic, which I know. --Emesik (talk) 18:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * But the US is only (allegedly) involved in Stuxnet, not sabotages, explosions, killings or capture of ships.--IranitGreenberg (talk) 05:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I would say it's the opposite with Stuxnet. It is American product of the Olympic Games program, while the extent of Israeli involvement is not certain.
 * In recent years the Iran-US conflict intensified. There were notable drone incidents. US is also believed to be financing MEK and Jundallah, responsible for attacks on security forces in Baluchistan. Capture of Abdolmalek Rigi by Iranians confirms that.
 * What I mean is that it would be quite artificial divide to describe Iran-US and Iran-Israel conflicts separately, while Israel and US share the same objectives (protecting Israel, stopping Iranian nuclear program, regime change in Tehran). --Emesik (talk) 08:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Understood. I agree.--IranitGreenberg (talk) 08:46, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

As the whole world now knows, US Secretary of State John Kerry 'brokered a deal' which Netanyahu and John Bolton  do not like: "Abject Surrender by the United States—What does Israel do now?"  8:50 AM, NOV 24, 2013 • BY JOHN BOLTON — FYI, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 15:51, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I have very important information off iran call with me by number 09399550520 in Iran Azad areya (talk) 00:46, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Israel-Iran or Iran-Israel?
As far as I know, the convention at Wikipedia is to order the sides of the conflict alphabetically. --Emesik (talk) 23:40, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree. This article should be moved. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem - seems logical (as creator).Greyshark09 (talk) 20:51, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

✅ — I tried entering Israel-Iran proxy conflict and it redirects here. — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:57, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

This is not fair and balanced, but pro-Israel
The article is biased in favor of Israel. Many of the references are from Israeli newspapers.--Ezzex (talk) 22:51, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

I am in agreement with Ezzex that this article is biased, starting with the second sentence. Article is grounded in US/Israeli mass media narrative that Iran is the perpetual aggressor and that Israel is the perpetual innocent defender and that Israel's actions are somehow "counter" to those of other parties. mapmd(talk) 03:24, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

If the truth seems biased so be it.Ericl (talk) 19:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Furthermore, an unprofessionally assertive and unsupported claim is made toward the end of the introduction: "Though the Islamic Republic of Iran has been known for its anti-Israeli stance from the very beginning, its continuous support for Hezbollah evolved into almost a direct confrontation with Israel, as Revolutionary Guards have allegedly infiltrated Lebanon and directly supported Hezbollah during the past decade."

The next sentence cites an op-ed written in the Blaze, a disreputable (and political) source: "The Hamas-dominated Gaza had also been considered a proxy of Iran." FROMjodiefoster(talk) 02:11, 25 Nov 2015 (UTC)

If you mean TheBlaze, then the source may have an American conservative bias. Dimadick (talk) 17:34, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Sudan Does not support Iran
Omar Al Bashir has denied strategic relations with Iran, saying that "Sudan cannot allow a shiite presence". http://www.aawsat.net/2014/10/article55337441 http://www.aawsat.net/2014/10/article55337439 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisissparta12345 (talk • contribs) 15:28, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

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Is this article WP:OR?
I cannot find any WP:RS which write in detail on this topic, covering the broad scope which our article covers. If such WP:RS exist, please could editors point them out (and add them to the bibliography)?

Oncenawhile (talk) 17:11, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Dispute
Here, I am descibing why edits done by User:Neoavalith is to be removed from the article. Considering the above, I am making necessary changes to the article and I expect a discussion over a possible change to my edit. Pahlevun (talk) 16:18, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Hezbollah Student Group of Iran University of Science and Technology 01.JPG clearly is against Manual of Style/Images because it is not related to the article. The only reason to include the picture in the article is to imply a former description: "Hezbollah Student Group of Iran University of Science and Technology. A possible sign of the relations between them." Not only a original research, it is clearly pushing a POV.
 * 1) The two propaganda cartoons File:Hezbollah iran hamas.jpg and File:Hezbollah hall of heroes.jpg are simply "decorative" and they have no illustrative aid about the context. Since we are not talking about the cartoons, their use is unencyclopedic. They were removed before for the same reason.
 * 2) The incumbent and former President of Iran are constantly being added to the infobox, while they have no control over military and security forces and even not a full control over foreign policy. The Commander-in-Chief of the Iranian Armed Forces is the Supreme Leader of Iran, who holds control over "sovereign ministries" aa well. I asked for sources on the involvement of Presidents and it was not provided.

I have very important information
I have very information important Azad areya (talk) 00:31, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Israeli involvement in the Syrian Civil War which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:47, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Jundallah has no ties to Israel
There is no evidence whatsoever on Israeli support for Jundallah. It is not enciclopedic to claim otherwise only on the base of Iranian regime propaganda. Just because Khamenei says so it doesn't mean it is true. Someone should remove Jundallah from the list of Israeli proxies. Wikipedia should not be the mouthpiece of any regime or political faction.
 * See TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 22:10, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 December 2017
There was an attack against an Iranian base in Syria. Please someone add the following text at the end of this section:

Arab media outlets reported that Israeli aircraft targeted an Iranian base near the town of al-Kiswah on December 2, 2017. Syrian state television corroborated the report, stating that Syria's air defense system was able to shoot down three of the five air-to-surface missiles launched from Lebanese airspace at the compound. The remaining two missiles detonated near the cache. Syrian state media reported that two days later Israel fired missiles at a military facility in the Damascus countryside, intercepting three of the missiles. A witness told Reuters that three strong explosions were heard from the direction of Jamraya, which contains a military research facility that was supposedly hit by an Israeli attack in 2013.

Thanks--181.90.33.156 (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:26, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 February 2018
At the end of this section, please add the following text:
 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 05:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

2018
On February 10, 2018, an Israeli AH-64 shot down an Iranian drone that entered Israel. Four Israeli F-16's launched a strike into Syria while remaining in Israeli airspace, reportedly to strike Iranian drone control facilities, conducting a cross-border raid. One of them was shot down by Syrian air defense forces and crashed in northern Israel. Both pilots were injured, but managed to eject. Israel subsequently attacked Syrian air defenses and Iranian targets.

Thank you very much--181.90.32.202 (talk) 07:04, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 February 2018
'''There are a couple of airstrikes missing. I ask an extended confirmed user to please add at the end of this section, next to the last paragraph, the following information:'''

Sources affiliated with the Syrian opposition reported that Israeli aircraft attacked seven positions belonging to Hezbollah in the Qalamoun Mountains area on December 26, 2015.

Also next to the first sentence in this section, add the following:

On February 22, 2017, Israeli jets struck a Hezbollah weapons shipment near Damascus.

Finally, at the beginning of this section, please add this paragraph:

According to Syrian army sources, Israeli aircraft struck the al-Qutaifa area near Damascus from inside Lebanese airspace on January 9, 2018. Syrian air defenses claimed hitting one of the planes and intercepting ground-to-ground rockets launched from Israeli-held territory in the Golan Heights. According to sources from the Syrian opposition, Israeli aircraft attacked a Hezbollah arms depot in a military airport near Damascus on January 17, 2018. On February 7, 2018, Syrian state media said that Israeli warplanes attacked a military position in the Damascus countryside from Lebanese airspace, with Syrian air defenses destroying most of the missiles. Other reports stated that the target was the Scientific Research Center in Jamraya, west of Damascus, and that the same position had been targeted by Israel twice before. Some activists claim that the position contains arms depots used by Hezbollah.

Thank you very much--181.90.35.2 (talk) 08:22, 20 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done &#x2230; Bellezzasolo &#x2721;   Discuss  13:29, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2018
Please add in the infobox for Hamas "2017-present", after 2006-2011.

"Hamas and Iran have patched up relations, the Palestinian militant group’s new leader in Gaza said on Monday, and Tehran is again its biggest backer after years of tension over the civil war in Syria."

"“Relations with Iran are excellent and Iran is the largest supporter of the Izz el-Deen al-Qassam Brigades with money and arms,” Yehya al-Sinwar, referring to Hamas’s armed wing, told reporters."

"“The relationship today is developing and returning to what it was in the old days,” Sinwar, who was elected in February, said in his first briefing session with reporters.

“This will be reflected in the resistance (against Israel) and in (Hamas’s) agenda to achieve the liberation,” he said." Vhstef (talk) 12:33, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. The offered source demonstrates only an intention to engage in conflict, not actual proxy conflict.  Please open a separate discussion to see if ther is a consensus among editors that this is enough to alter the article in this way. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Odd wording in 1st paragraph
In first paragraph: "to prevent alleged nuclear weapons from the Iranian government". For one thing, that's ungrammatical. Second, I think Israel would like to Iran to not get actual nuclear weapons. Nurg (talk) 08:15, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Violates NPOV
The second sentence betrays the writer's bias. It blatantly portrays Iran as the offense and Israel as defense. It also paints Iranian opposition to Israel as a "declared aim to destroy the Jewish state". This has numerous problems: Iran is not against a Jewish state, just the state that is occupying Palestine; the "Jewish state" wording is clearly what Zionists would say in an attempt to portray Israel as representing all Jews; "destroy" is clearly an attempt to portray Iran negatively; and Iran did not buy into any of this wording by "declaring" words in this manner.

That was only the first few clauses of the second sentence. The second part says Israel has only a "counter aim"; it also ignores the fact that Israel holds nuclear weapons illegally, whereas Iran recently entered into an agreement not to product nuclear weapons, even though it was probably never producing any in the first place, unless one is to believe that Iraq was also producing the nonexistent WMDs.

A first paragraph biased the other way might read:

"The Israel-Iran proxy conflict is the ongoing proxy war between Israel and Iran. The conflict is bound in the political struggle of Israeli leadership against Muslims, who make up a large majority of Iran, and its declared aim to ethnically cleanse Palestine, as well as the alliance between Israel and the Saudi dictatorship; the counter aim of Iran is to prevent nuclear weapons being illegally held by the Israeli government and downgrading its allies and proxies such as Saudi Arabia. Israeli-allied forces, including those of the US, are operating in Syria against the government. The conflict gradually emerged from the declared hostility of [the] created Palestine-occupying theocratic state of Israel towards Muslims, who constitute a large majority of Iranians (and especially towards Shiites, a Muslim minority which has largely fled from the Sunni dictatorships of Egypt and Saudi Arabia into Iran) since 1948, into covert Israeli-ally US support of Al Qaeda through Saudi Arabia during the Yemeni Civil War (2013-current) and essentially developed into a proxy war. With increasing US involvement in Syria from 2017, the conflict had shifted from proxy warfare into direct confrontation by early 2018."

Another thing I noticed is the claims of increasing hostility. Combined with the blatant anti-Iran bias, this article seems to be written by someone advocating for the counteracting of this through invasion of Iran by the US, something which both the Iranian people and the American people oppose.

The second paragraph openly uses as a source the Israeli government's narrative, which is clearly going to be biased, as will any government's narrative. The entire article sounds clearly biased and never considers any Iranian point of view.

A neutral paragraph should look more like:

"The Iran-Israeli proxy conflict is the ongoing proxy war between Israel and Iran. The conflict is bound in the opposition of Iran to the existence of Israel, and the confirmed illegal acquiring of nuclear weapons by Israel; and on the other in the Israeli coalition with the West, which Iran perceives as colonialist, and the alleged illegal development and/or acquiring of nuclear weapons by Iran. The conflict is related to the political struggles of two coalitions, on the one hand being the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia, representing the West, Jews, and Sunni Muslims, and on the other being Russia, Palestine, and Iran, representing Muslims and especially Shiite Muslims, as well as forces opposed to what is perceived as Western imperialism." Wiki user wiki (talk) 00:37, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Not every Israel-Hezbollah conflict ...
User:יניב הורון: You're wrong if you think you can push this edit back into the article by edit warring, your usual strategy. Not every Israel-Hezbollah conflict is related to do with this article. Build consensus before doing further edits in this regard. (See WP:ONUS)-- M h hossein   talk 12:08, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed.---Wikaviani (talk) 12:24, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy; every Israel-Hezbollah encounter is known to Iranian security.GreyShark (dibra) 10:50, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Iran–Israel proxy conflict
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Iran–Israel proxy conflict's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "abdo": From Hezbollah involvement in the Syrian Civil War:  From Hezbollah:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:54, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 July 2020
In the section "Cyberwarfare and sabotage 2020", you can add:

On 9 July, a big explosion was heard in the nearby cities of Garmdarreh and Qods. The blast occurred at a factory making gas cylinders, according to the mayor of Garmdarreh. 118.17.122.187 (talk) 23:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. This failed verification. There's nothing in the source that indicates that this reported explosion is part of a proxy war.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 11:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 July 2020
In Cyberwarfare and sabotage 2020 section, you can add:. 218.250.165.142 (talk) 13:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. El_C 13:58, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Merge 2020 Israel–Hezbollah skirmishes
Propose to merge 2020 Israel–Hezbollah skirmishes -> Iran–Israel proxy conflict per WP:NOTNEWS. The source article is a stub, with no standalone importance or notability; it seems the article started with the expectation that clashes would develop, but nothing essentially happened. At most one sentence is enough on this to be moved here.GreyShark (dibra) 13:40, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Merging, due to lack of objections after 3 weeks.GreyShark (dibra) 16:04, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 November 2020
At the end of this section, please add the following sentence:

Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, head of Iran's nuclear weapons program, was assassinated on 27 November 2020 in Absard.

Thanks--Watchlonly (talk) 23:46, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅, and thank you very much!  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 15:40, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2020
In the 'proxies' section, add Azerbaijan on the Israeli side and Armenia/Artsakh on the Iranian side. Israel supported Azerbaijan in the recent 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War while Iran backs Armenia. Add the leaders for the respective sides as well - Ilham Aliyev for Azerbaijan, Nikol Pashinyan for Armenia, and Arayik Harutyunyan for Artsakh.
 * Not done, trtword article says Iran "seems" to be helping Armenian and Artsaj.Iranian involvement was not clear, proven or decisive to be considered in the scope of the article. Most likely seems this information come from clear propaganda reasons inside Turkey. Also trtword is not a Reliable Source for such a claim it is a propaganda tool from the Turkish Government . Mr.User200 (talk) 02:30, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2020
In the infobox section called "part of" in should include a link to the articles Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict and Israeli–Palestinian conflict. As well as remove the redirect to the article Middle Eastern Cold War.

Categories for the article should include: • Israel–Iran relations

• Iran–United States proxy conflict

• Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict

• Ongoing conflicts

• 1980s conflicts

• 1990s conflicts

• 2000s conflicts

• 2010s conflicts

• 2020s conflicts

• 1980s in Israel

• 1980s in Iran

• 1990s in Israel

• 1990s in Iran

• 2000s in Israel

• 2000s in Iran

• 2010s in Israel

• 2010s in Iran

• 2020s in Israel

• 2020s in Iran

• Conflicts involving the People's Mujahedin of Iran

• Wars involving Iran

• Wars involving Israel

• Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War The category 21st-century conflict should be removed as it's more of a board category.

The templates at the bottom of the article should include:

WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: I have added Iran–United States relations to the navboxes, however the other two navboxes do not link to this article. I do not see a link to Middle Eastern Cold War. Please gather a consensus for the removal of Category:21st-century conflicts. I added the following categories:

• Category:Iran–United States proxy conflict

• Category:Ongoing conflicts

• Category:2000s conflicts

• Category:2000s in Israel

• Category:2000s in Iran

• Category:2010s conflicts

• Category:2010s in Israel

• Category:2010s in Iran

• Category:2020s conflicts

• Category:2020s in Israel

• Category:2020s in Iran

• Category:Conflicts involving the People's Mujahedin of Iran. Terasail &#91;✉&#93; 23:57, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 March 2021
Add (alleged) to Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Morocco claims that the POLISARIO front received support from Hezbollah thrue the Iran Consul in Algeria. https://apnews.com/article/3aebb7da756940c99434b420a45aa84b

I want to make sure that this is clear. Morocco has been for decades propagandized The Polisario Front. From Being called a Soviet-backed movement to a Terrorist Organisation² to work with AQIM¹ and ISIS¹. and Now Hezbollah without releasing any reliable proof. ¹ https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/ ¹ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330520830_Terrorist_organisation_or_liberation_movement_The_Polisario_front's_classification Schlummerhimmel (talk) 16:06, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think the claim from Hezbollah in the AP source linked is enough to override the source used in the article. Additionally, the AP source also has the counterclaim that Hezbollah and Polisario have stepped up their interactions. If you'd like this edit made please establish consensus on the talk page. Thanks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:22, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Sudan
Yes, Sudan agreed to normalise relations with Israel (note that the agreement hasn't been signed yet) but this was not in the context of this proxy conflict. You wouldn't consider every state that has relations with Israel to be supporting it would you?

The first source quotes the president of the state brokering the deal saying that Sudan will be removed from the list of state sponsors of terror and the only mention of Iran is another statement saying that they envision even Iran normalising relations with Israel.

The second source states that Sudan was a staunch ally of Iran until 2016.

There isn't a source that claims that Sudan has allied with Israel against Iran.

Also, the Iraqi and Lebanese states are definitely allies of Iran while the KRG may be more neutral. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210403-israel-considers-possibility-of-devastating-attack-by-syria-lebanon-iran-iraq/ According to this an Israeli official looks at Iraq and Lebanon to be threats suggesting that both states are allied to IranAngele201002 (talk) 00:51, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with your statement. After all, I think we should review the combatant of proxy conflict. I think they added Sudan according to Iran-Saudi Arabia conflict -- Wendylove (talk) 00:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 May 2021
Change: “The Iran–Israel proxy conflict, also known as the Iran–Israel proxy war or Iran–Israel Cold War, is an ongoing proxy war by Iran against Israel.”

To: “ The Iran–Israel proxy conflict, also known as the Iran–Israel proxy war or Iran–Israel Cold War, is an ongoing proxy between Iran and Israel.” 2600:6C40:5300:CAA7:0:0:0:1001 (talk) 04:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done — IVORK Talk 06:18, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 April 2021
Iran-Israel proxy conflict, at the end of the History section, pls, add a table of the ships that have been attacked. Ed27000 (talk) 03:40, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Opal&#124;zukor (discuss) 07:56, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

After History:

[Equals sign, equals sign]Table of ship attacks[Equals sign, Equals sign]

This article is not balanced, thus it must be allowed to be edited by all
For instance: The conflict revolves around Iran's leaders issuing threats and showing hostility towards Israel, expressing their goal of dissolving the Jewish state.

Iran has provided funding, weapons, and training to various groups, including Lebanese Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. These groups have pledged and executed attacks on Israel, earning them the terrorist organization designation from multiple countries.

Upon reading this, one might conclude that a nation supports terrorist groups solely aiming to harm Israel. However, it's important to note that Iranian Supreme Leader has stated the country's policy is a referendum encompassing people in Israel, Palestine, and the occupied territories. The referendum's outcome would be accepted by Iran, challenging the notion of dissolving the Jewish state. Moreover, all the entities supported by Iran are, in some way, resisting or have resisted Israeli occupation, invasion, or aggression. This is substantiated by past and present UN resolutions, reports, and international court rulings. It could be argued that Iran supports entities under Israeli oppression, creating an unbalanced article. A more equitable approach would be to consider creating another article named "Israel-Iran Proxy War" if this one is not open to balanced editing. Gosale (talk) 06:38, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Removal of content
can you explain this edit? First, you said "Masoud Banisadr (not Barker) who is part of the group he is promoting." What group is Banisadr "promoting"? Certainly not MEK.

Secondly, and more importantly, there were two sources at the end of that statement. The second source appears to have nothing to do with Banisadr. Why did you remove it?VR talk 09:21, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Stuxnet Hyperlink
The article for Stuxnet, the cyberwarfare program created to attack the Iranian nuclear program, should be linked in the sentence: "Israel has also conducted cyber warfare against Iran, and has publicly advocated for international military action against Iran." DeVos Max (talk) 05:46, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Request for reversion
The change at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict&oldid=1062094832 for the Sabireen Movement flag was reverted by the bot because of a lack of fair use rationale. I have updated the image, and added a template for this page.

The flag should not trip up the bot anymore.

Luxdsg (talk) 00:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 August 2022
Please add a reference to an article, doi:10.1080/01402390.2022.2104254, at the end of the second paragraph (...the conflict escalated and by 2018 turned into direct Iranian-Israeli warfare.[add here]). This unsupported statement can benefit from this reference. This reference may also be of help to the section "Open engagement (2017–2018)". PolSciTAU (talk) 14:03, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: Potential editors please see related discussion. --N8wilson 🔔 14:48, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Aaron Liu (talk) 11:29, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 December 2022
yemen does not support israel in the conflict. the citation on yemen states israels role in yemens conflict: "Maariv: Israel involved in Yemeni conflict to serve 'Saudi lover'" Laithhh (talk) 17:10, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Among Us for POTUS (talk) 02:41, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm not really sure how this is possible, but I just wanted to let you know that the Israel prime minister status has not yet been updated, as Naftali Bennett stepped down in June. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cesspool135 (talk • contribs) 02:40, 20 December 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ –LaundryPizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 January 2023
In the 2022 events section, there is a minor grammar mistake, change the capitalization of "november" to November. CR-1-AB (talk) 16:36, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 December 2022
remove yemen from israel’s “supported by” list. both states have no diplomatic relations whatsoever, and the citation on yemen’s “pro hadi cabinet” states “Israel involved in Yemeni conflict to serve 'Saudi lover'", showing israels support in the yemeni conflict, not yemens support in the israel-iran conflict. Laithhh (talk) 17:38, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 16:04, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * the citation on yemen in the "belligerents" table is the following link: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190827-maariv-israel-involved-in-yemeni-conflict-to-serve-saudi-lover/
 * this source explains Israel's support for Saudi Arabia in the Yemeni civil war, which is completely irrelevant to the Israel-Iran proxy conflict. furthermore, Yemen's pro hadi cabinet is completely neutral in this proxy conflict, as there isnt a single source that talks about the Yemeni government's involvement or support for any of the two belligerents in this proxy war. Laithhh (talk) 21:38, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ I agree. The source doesn't support the inclusion. I also removed Saudi Arabia since it had a source that failed verification (no mention of Saudi Arabia in it). M.Bitton (talk) 11:15, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Can someone update the article
Can someone mention's Iran alleged involvement in the planning of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood, their reaction, as well as Hezbollah's and Syria's involvement in the events and just update the article in general?Joaquinazo (talk) 01:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Added. It is not alleged, but widely cited involvement.GreyShark (dibra) 16:59, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Op-ed
about this source, I realize that Ynet is reliable, but the problem I raised with the source is that it's an op-ed. JoseJan89 (talk) 09:15, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Another update
It says in the Involved Parties section that Hamas stopped being an Iranian proxy in 2012. Although true, Iran began funding Hamas again somewhere around 2016/2017. Can someone update the article to reflect that information.Joaquinazo (talk) 16:13, 11 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I second this request. Here are two reliable sources:
 * https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/09/hamas-iran-rebuild-ties-falling-out-syria
 * https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/combating-hamass-networks-illicit-finance-and-terrorism 2A02:A212:2BC0:8280:85D5:B147:CB12:F12 (talk) 12:16, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2023
Rewrite the following paragraph in "2023 Israel–Hamas war": "Iran and its proxies, Russia and to a lesser extent China have launched a disinformation campaign against Israel, Ukraine –which condemned the attacks– and their main ally, the United States, glorifying the crimes of Hamas and encouraging more violence against Israeli civilians." to the corresponding text in Misinformation in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war:

"According to information security experts interviewed by the New York Times, Iran, Russia, China, Iran's proxies, Al Qaeda and the Islamic State have been conducting massive online disinformation efforts focused on "[undercutting] Israel, while denigrating Israel's principal ally, the United States"."

As it is more encyclopedic and as the source explicitly states that the campaigns do not appear to be coordinated, it makes no mention of Ukraine condemning the attacks and only mentions Iranian accounts glorifying war crimes. QuarksAndElectrons (talk) 18:23, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

On Russia in infobox
Should Russia be included on the Israeli side of supporters? Russia and Iran have become closer allies in recent years, with Iran supplying Russia drones etc... And Russia props up Bashar Al Assad regime that is also part of Iranian alliance against Israel. Homerethegreat (talk) 19:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Armenia&Artsakh
I see those countries in the article with NO SOURCE menitioned. 2A02:560:57AD:8500:55E0:E487:5B5A:8094 (talk) 13:37, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 January 2024
Several minor but important fixes, please. 1) The (red) link in lead for the 2021 war between Israel and Gaza should be corrected: 2021. 2) Last sentence in lead should say sought sanctions and... (there's a 't' missing). 3) In this section, redaction should be according to an encyclopedia rather than an opinion article. Where it says "The PLO found Iran's revolution inspiring: if Khomenei, who had been exiled from his homeland, defeated a militarily powerful enemy supported by the US, why couldn't the PLO?", maybe it should say instead: The PLO found Iran's revolution inspiring, given that Khomenei, who had been exiled from his homeland, defeated a militarily powerful enemy supported by the US, something that the PLO thought it could replicate against Israel. Thanks--Pritagros (talk) 05:12, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * fix 2 done. Shadow311 (talk) 15:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ the rest. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 23:45, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Removal of sourced content
I definitely don't agree with this edit. It removes sourced content critical of Israel. Why? VR (Please ping on reply) 03:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Also this source was WP:CHERRYPICKED to say "Iranian leaders have described Israel as an illegitimate "Zionist regime" supported by the West to usurp rightfully Muslim land". The source actually says "Iran’s Islamists consider Israel an illegitimate state that has usurped Muslim/Arab lands and driven the Palestinians from their homeland. They believe Israel should be replaced by a non-denominational state in which Muslims and Jews live as equals." VR (Please ping on reply) 03:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Another problem is original research. The edit added to the lead a reference to dar al-islam, whereas neither of the inline citations make that claim. VR (Please ping on reply) 04:57, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 * What sourced content critical of Israel? The version you prefer is an absolute mess. PrimaPrime (talk) 02:54, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Can you please discuss on talk before you make such substantial edits? What parts are "an absolute mess"? Please follow WP:BRD. For example, you putting "Iranian leaders have described Israel as an illegitimate "Zionist regime"" in the second sentence of the lead is WP:UNDUE. This conflict is a lot more than name-calling, so I'm not sure why that should be introduced before anything else. The source you used says Iran believes "Israel should be replaced by a non-denominational state in which Muslims and Jews live as equals". I think that's substantial and I'd be in favor of mentioning that in the lead, something like:
 * "Iran currently opposes both the two state solution and Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, instead calling for Israel to be replaced by a single state in which Muslims and Jews live as equals."
 * VR (Please ping on reply) 21:12, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
 * You've got BRD backwards. I don't have to discuss first, you have to discuss if you have objections, and failed to do so when I asked for more specific concerns you had beyond a couple minor tweaks which I indeed made.
 * The version you prefer is indeed a mess. It's logically disorganized and key citations are broken. The first paragraph is just as UNDUE by your logic as it includes uncited name-calling about "settler-colonialism" and "aggression", and of course does not include the sentence you suggested. If its absence is all you are unhappy with, then you should just add it yourself rather than reverting the entire thing. PrimaPrime (talk) 12:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I would much rather prefer slowly building consensus in the lead, one paragraph at a time. For example, you wrote "Despite continued Israeli support for Iran in the Iran-Iraq War, Iran began backing Hezbollah during the 1985–2000 South Lebanon conflict." Its not so simple. As Trita Parsi mentions, Iran reciprocated Israel's 1980 arms sales by facilitating Jewish emigration to Israel (as the Israelis had asked). He also adds that the Israelis themselves were alarmed by the Americans improving their ties with Egypt and Iraq. Later Israeli armed sales were egged on by Americans who wanted to improve intelligence into Iran. VR (Please ping on reply) 06:06, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Sounds like good details you could add to the body. Not sure how it complicates the basic gist of the sentence in question, that Israeli dealings with Iran didn't immediately vanish after the revolution. The idea of the lede is to summarize.
 * Again, I'm happy to deal with whatever actual issues you see - for example the "sourced content critical of Israel" you think I've removed as obviously I don't want to be seen as POV pushing. But you shouldn't just revert the entire thing to being a disorganized jumble when you could instead be building on my edits by adding, changing or removing whatever you want on a more granular basis. PrimaPrime (talk) 11:09, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * So I attempted to do a lead rewrite with the following rational:
 * 1st paragraph describes most of the major players in the Iran-Israel proxy conflict. Since this page is about proxies, I figured they should be given the most weight.
 * 2nd paragraph describes the history of the conflict, mostly in Lebanon and Gaza.
 * 3rd paragraph gives both sides' rationales for conflict. In particular, I do include what scholars feel are geopolitical reasons that have made Iran and Israel rivals.
 * Happy to hear your thoughts.VR (Please ping on reply) 05:20, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Iran's denial of the covert ties after the revolution need to be added. -- M h hossein   talk 20:26, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Armenia and Artsakh support of Iran in proxy conflict with Israel
the inclusion of these nations in the infobox is not sourced and should be either sourced or removed. Peetel (talk) 08:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Top
It seems that the word "oppressed" does not need the quotes. With the quotes makes it seem as if the oppression isn't real, or isn't to be taken seriously.

I don't know if I did this right. Towels4days (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Title Change- Israel Hamas War
Since the talk page has been completely protected away from any discussion by smaller accounts, I say this here-

With the drones set to hit Israel soon enough, the wars, conflicts, should all be merged into ONE article. the conflicts have become intertwined. IEditPolitics (talk) 22:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I disagree. They're distinct enough to merit separate articles. David O. Johnson (talk) 22:21, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That article would be too long, and then we'd have to split them into different articles again. JohnR1Roberts (talk) 22:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I disagree on merging here. It would be better to have this article with summaries of others and page links. Alexanderkowal (talk) 01:51, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Open warfare
Recent developments suggest a significant escalation from what has traditionally been characterized as a proxy conflict to more direct military engagements between Iran and Israel.[1 ] In the Iran–Israel proxy conflict the article reads “This is the first direct military confrontation between the two countries since the beginning of the Iran–Israel conflict.”

Given these developments, I believe it may be necessary to reconsider the title of or make a new article to ensure it accurately reflects the current nature of the conflict.

I would also like to note the date format, as technically the proxy war is over, should the date say 16 February 1985 – 1 April 2024? LuxembourgLover (talk) 02:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * The proxy war is over. As of this writing Israel has not struck Iran. We wait on events. kencf0618 (talk) 03:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As of yet, I wouldn't consider it an end to the proxy conflict, since the Al-Asad Airbase retaliation for the Assassination of Qasem Soleimani didn't lead to a direct conflict between the United States and Iran. But this is still recent, nobody knows about the possible escalations that could follow suit. Christophervincent01 (talk) 04:14, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * With additional strikes being made by both sides, I think the "proxy" part of the contlifct is over. LuxembourgLover (talk) 15:48, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 15 April 2024
<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. For some reason, the discussion was archived without action. (non-admin closure) Toadette Edit! 12:00, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Iran and Israel are now attacking each other directly, and in the past they have carried out cyber attacks, direct covert operations and other actions other than supporting proxies. Therefore, the title is not correct and needs to be changed. Parham wiki (talk) 19:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Iran–Israel proxy conflict → Iran–Israel conflict
 * Russia and the Iran–Israel proxy conflict → Russia and the Iran–Israel conflict
 * Support per nom. Cfls (talk) 21:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. This is a hot war now and no longer a proxy war. RS even acknowledge this directly ("Analysis | By attacking Israel, Iran turns shadow war into direct conflict"). The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:09, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment - we have a separate article for the ongoing direct conflict in 2024, so we should ask ourselves whether we want to cover the proxy conflict separately or not. – Asarlaí  (talk) 21:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment - also, might I suggest Israeli–Iranian or Iranian–Israeli, to match Israeli–Palestinian conflict, Israeli–Lebanese conflict and Arab–Israeli conflict. – Asarlaí  (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Whatever the new title is, the current one is no good because it's no longer just a only simple "proxy war". Therefore in favor of support removing "proxy" on title of article. That of 2024 is just a new phase and battle. 5.91.127.57 (talk) 13:42, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose both The scope of the Iran–Israel proxy conflict article is far bigger than just the direct conflict starting this year, going back to 1985. In addition, we already have an article titled 2024 Iran–Israel conflict, so there is no need to make another one. The Russia and the Iran–Israel proxy conflict does not cover the direct conflict between Iran and Israel, but rather the proxy conflict many years before the direct one, so a move does not make sense. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As we assess this, we may want to reevaluate whether "Iran--Israel proxy conflict" is even a framing that's actually supported by RS. Reading through an arbitrary selection of the article's sources, I'm not seeing examples of sources themselves calling conflict between Iran and Israel a proxy conflict--at most, they describe some groups as Iranian proxy groups (meanwhile, there is only one group identified as an Israeli proxy, which has at most engaged in a handful of targeted assassinations). We can't infer this lens of describing the conflict simply from the presence of proxies, that would be WP:OR. signed,Rosguill talk 14:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It looks like there's some coverage with this framing indexed by Google Scholar, but it's limited to publications we typically consider non-RS: undergraduate theses and student journals (e.g. in Sentris). signed,Rosguill talk 14:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment: change the date to 16 February 1985 – 1 April 2024. LuxembourgLover (talk) 17:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, particularly since one side acts directly and one side uses proxies Alexanderkowal (talk) 02:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Changed to Oppose both Alexanderkowal (talk) 16:58, 17 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Support – Due to the escalation of the conflict. Svartner (talk) 12:11, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose both: the scope of this article is the description of almost 40 years of conflict operated mostly indirectly, so not a "direct conflict" as the renaming would imply. The fact that in these days things may escalate does not change this substantial aspect, nor it justifies renaming arbitrarily the past. Eventually, this relabelling for 1985-2024 period, would be up to future historians, not up to us living things directly as they happen. Furthermore, for the time being the conflict has not yet assumed the characteristics of a direct conflict. Even in the unlucky case things between Israel and Iran get worse, this article deserves an existence on its own, with the current title. It is the detailed background leading to today's situation, that would turn into something totally different if it turns out into a real direct war (hopefully not). If that would be the unlucky case, that should be described on an article totally apart. Changing the title, or at least, doing it now, would be hasty. We don't even know how things will evolve, we cannot predict the future and state, as for things are today, that "there is already a real conflict and all the past we considered as "proxy" has suddenly become a direct conflict".--Superspritz (talk) 13:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the points made here need to be refuted before any change Alexanderkowal (talk) 13:08, 17 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose both: the outbreak of direct conflict between Iran and Israel doesn't mean that the proxy war never was a proxy war, it means the proxy war has ended. If the Cold War went hot, I doubt the article on it would be called US-USSR conflict. The scope of this article should remain on the years of indirect warfare which led up to the current conflict, anyway.
 * ZionniThePeruser (talk) 16:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose both: per @ZionniThePeruser rationale. There is already the article 2024 Iran–Israel conflict, that documents the current conflict, which could be renamed to Iran–Israel conflict in the future if the conflict continues beyond 2024. Also per @Superspritz comment, this article documents the history of the proxy conflict, whereby the content hasn't suddenly changed due to the current conflict/crisis.
 * Suggestion: Add hatnote to aricle for 2024 Iran–Israel conflict for people who want to read about the current conflict and not the proxy.
 * CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 16:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose it's too soon to make this change based on recent events. Additionally, if events escalate, this article should still be kept in-place; if the USSR and the US went to war in the 80s, it's not like we would've renamed the "Cold War" article. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 23:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose both Even if this became a "hot war" renaming this article and making the last four decades of proxy conflict moot would not be the correct path. The better way (if it is deemed to become a conflict which I have serious doubts on) would be to have this article cover 1985 to 2023 and then a new article on the conflict itself. Yeoutie (talk) 15:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)