Talk:Iran Scout Organization

Attention tag
For B-class, expand the lead, fix up the refs into a separate section, and see if the translation can be made. Rlevse 23:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Iran Scout Organization
Article(s): Iran Scout Organization

Request:
 * For the red emblem I would like to ask for a line-drawing or clearer variant; the badge is quite worn.
 * The red-white-green emblem I would like to ask to be made larger to show detail. Chris 05:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Graphist opinion:

Red Emblem


Okay, i'll get to work on a vector. > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 16:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I know it isn't much, but I've started the line drawing, i have done the outline and a few of the features inside, is this okay so far ? > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 17:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually that's a great start and way better than I could do! I have added the Image:Faravahar.png because I believe it is the concept they're driving at. Besides, I didn't have a Journey album handy. ;) Also, check out The Lion and Sun for ideas on those themes. (weird, that flag shares a lot in common with Ethiopia) And thanks again! Chris 08:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Second Edit, looking okay ? > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 16:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It is looking great, thanks! If you put the red and the r/w/g/ emblems side by side, proportionally and shape wise the scroll and even the emblem shape are the same, it's just the red one was cast in aluminum so it doesn't have the sharp points the r/w/g one has. If you want to use the r/w/g emblem for an outline shape, I hope it would help and not hinder your great work. I have added Image:Iran Scout Organization membership badge.png to show a more recent variant, unfortunately it is the same small size in terms of detail. Chris 07:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * More like this ? > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 10:19, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I meant the outer shaping of the emblem itself. If possible, could the outer edges be made a single thin line, rather than two basically parallel lines with a hollow between? Bear in mind that this was an aluminum casting and not strictly faithful to the design, because of the thickness they had to use to show detail and still have the cloisonné work out. You've got great detail, and I appreciate your work on our behalf. Your last iteration before this, with the upturned, fuller wings squares with the way it should be. I only put Image:Faravahar.png on here to show what the otherwise-difficult to see image should be; but the fuller version you had is closer than the now-thin one. Also, can you incorporate the scroll (basic shape and text) that Akiramenai and Cronholm are using on the r/w/g variant? Thank you for all your hard work! Chris 08:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay i think i've done what you intended now, but before I put in the scroll, we need to decide on the head on the badge, what do you want me to do with that (on the SVG is the exact thing that is on the photo) > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 09:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The face is that of an anthropomorphized lion, like on the old flag Image:Iran flag with emblem 1964-1979.png. I really appreciate your working on this-I imagine of the five emblems requested, this one is the most troublesome. Chris 20:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there a better quality image of this Lion, or a name for it so I can search for a better quality one, as this really is quite hard to do with the current supplied image > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 17:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The name is "The Lion and Sun", "shir o khorshid" in Persian. Hope that helps. Chris 05:12, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I searched on Google for a better image and found one ( luckily ) and have created a vector of the Lion's face 1) Is the lions face okay? 2) I shall now go onto the color, either you can specify a color scheme or I can make a guess on it according to the photograph you gave 3) Do you wish me to include the text like in the r/w/g emblem, at the bottom in the 'banner-like' shape?
 * The lion's face is great! The mane itself should be a little symmetrical for the shape of the badge.
 * The color scheme should be red and gold, so fairly similar to the red and aluminum pattern of the original. The gold of the lion's face is a great shade!
 * Yes, please include the scroll and text directly from the RWG emblem.
 * Thank you so much once again for your hard work! Chris 21:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's okay ! :-) I've made the Lion's Face Symmetrical, put in the colours that were in the example you provided and I have input the writing at the bottom. Anything else ?  > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 17:02, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's getting there now, but the red has overwhelmed your gold detailing. If possible, could the outer edges be made a single thin line, rather than two basically parallel lines with a hollow between? Thanks again! Chris 06:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ps-can you use the shape of the emblem, and the scroll as a whole, from the other image, as both are correct proportions? Thx, Chris 07:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean about the edges, could you maybe explain it a little better or maybe draw an example? As regards to the make the same shape thing, that isn't really opssible as there are many things that would stick out etc.  > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 16:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Rugby, thank you so much for being patient with me. My very crude example (sorry about that, my poor artwork is way ugly, I know; I do much better on paper) is actually very close to what I intend for the red emblem, the basic shape and coloration and so on. This is the top-right corner image. I will try and explain as best I can what is called for.


 * Don't treat the emblem as though the whole thing is a silhouette or perfect recreation of the aluminum badge. At this point, all you need from the aluminum badge is the sun, the winged emblem, and the lion's head, which you have already done. Maybe revisit it just for the detailing inside the wingspan, but there is also the Faravahar emblem on this page to use for detail on that.
 * Now discard the fact that the aluminum badge exists. For our purposes the red aluminum badge is now a non-issue, you've already got what you need from it. The new emblem should not look like a cookie-cutter encompassing all hollow spaces in the emblem, it needs white space where there are hollows between the scroll and emblem.
 * Take the collaborative emblem that Akira and Cronholm have developed, and borrow the outline of the emblem, and the scroll in its entirety (if you are allowed to, unless there is something that precludes you form doing so-Cronholm did say something about "using forbidden techniques..." but I was unsure what was meant). Their shape is right, and their scroll is right.
 * At present the vast amount of red washes out the gold details. Using the basic tracing you already made, make the sun-wing-lion elements the center of an emblem with the exact shape and the exact scroll of the r/w/g emblem, but in gold instead of the black they use. Leave the red out for now-put it in once you have got the central elements down pat.
 * Change the colors of the details of the lion's face-that is perfect and doesn't need re-detailing from anything-make the presently black parts gold, and make the presently gold parts red.
 * I really thank you for this, and for being patient with me. Chris 07:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You've gone quiet, I really hope I have not offended. I stand in awe of the great work you folks do. Thank you so much. Chris 06:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No, no no don't worry, it is that last night my Mum told me with two minutes to go to when we leave, that we are going to a circus performance for 3 hours ! I never get offended by these things ( even if it does look like it ) you are here to specify what you want and we are here to deliver. Anyway concerning the image now, thankyou for your instructions, I now see what you mean and so have done that. Do you also want me to color the border/scroll elements in the gold ? > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 07:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah! You got it! (I'm sorry, I've been confusing people lately) Yes, please make the border and scroll details gold as well, and fill in the rays of the sun in gold, leaving the center circle red. Now all we're down to is the winged-thingamabob. You rock! Chris 09:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Done, awaiting your advice on the 'winged-thingamabob' as you put it :-) > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 10:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I don't know if you graphic gurus have the ability to curve an existing shape. My ideas are this. On the wings on the Faravahar.png (which are, probably incorrectly, one degree counterclockwise from horizontal), can you warp up the ends so it will look swooping, like in the Scout badge itself? I don't think the proportions are right for it, but it's an idea.
 * Failing that, can you take the central portion of the wings of Faravahar.png, incorporate them into your winged portion, and simply extend the feather pattern out to the curved edges? Chris 20:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay I understand everything except for the first part about the 'warping' I'll get on this as soon as possible however i've hurt my neck and so it's not so good for me to be on the pc, at the very latest i'll be back on two days from now. Sorry for any inconvenience. > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 16:15, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Never an inconvenience, I so appreciate the work you do, take your time and take care of yourself, feel better! Chris 21:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What I mean is I have seen graphics programs where someone can bend and stretch an existing image to not be in the shape it is, say to curve a line of text or something. Chris 21:14, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know which package you used to create these SVGs, but I think the closest you'll get to such an effect in Inkscape is a very simple use of Pattern along Path (see this link on inkscape.org). --Dave the Rave (DTR) talk 16:24, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not familiar with it, but that should do the trick. Can you help? Chris 08:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay I'm back !! I'll get to work doing the feather pattern oon the image, however on the warping thing, do you mean on the Faravhar.png image and not the SVG i'm working on ? > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 09:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Half way through the feathers, however '''I need someone to change the shape of the feathers to fit the emblem. Anyone ?''' > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 10:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

On it, may take me an hour or two though.--Cronholm144 10:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I had an experiment with Pattern Along Path: see Image:Test PaP.svg. Is this the sort of thing you're looking for? --Dave the Rave (DTR) talk 10:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I made the wings and individual feathers editable as separate svgs in inkscape, I didn't fiddle with anything else. I can if you want though.--Cronholm144 12:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Great start! Thanks, all! Chris 05:28, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Does that look ok? I didn't have anything to base it off of...--Cronholm144 06:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, this needs to be uploaded at commons not WP once we are finished.--Cronholm144 07:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah that looks great thanks ! And about Commons, I acknowledge that, it's just that I didn't know the copyright status at the beginning of the request and so I uploaded it to Wikpedia so it would be safe from deletion if there was still copyright standing. Anything else to do Chris ? > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 08:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * God that's pretty! You guys are amazing! Two last things-


 * please make the outer edge of the whole winged device thicker, so it stands out like the sun and the lion do.
 * for the center of the winged device, please connect the upward two "prongs" as remaining solid gold sun rays, please make the "body" solid gold around that red circle, please fill the (legs? kickstands?) in gold, and please apply the wing-feather pattern to the "tail" area, rounding the bottom as in the "farvahar" device.

Thank you again so much! Chris 17:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

kickstands?! Anyway I have made some preliminary changes. I am not sure if they are what you wanted though.--Cronholm144 13:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, they looked like kickstands to me... :} This is brilliant, now just a bit of a thicker border on the winged object, and make the scroll background red, and we're set! Thank you! Chris 21:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okey dokey! > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 15:50, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Done that ! > Rugby471 talk &#9876; 16:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You, sir, are a god, and people will write songs lauding you, and clean ones this time! :) Thank you so much! Chris 21:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that the borders are thicker, do you want me to fiddle with the feathers?--Cronholm144 21:50, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fiddle as in define more deeply, or how? Chris 01:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As in, spread the feathers a bit, they seem cramped--Cronholm144 02:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I like that idea, yes please. And please bring the top sun ray to a point, if you can. :) Chris 02:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Point done, now all that remians is the feathers :-) > Rugby471 talk ⚔ 17:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You do beautiful work, by the way! Chris 21:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I will have to get an older version to edit the feathers and I am about to go on wikibreak(vacation), so this might have to go on hold for a week--Cronholm144 13:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Have fun and be safe! I look forward to what you have planned. Chris 05:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * While you're tweaking, can the text and the stripes on the scroll be made thicker so as to be legible on the background? ThanksChris 02:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Back yet? I hope you guys aren't fed up with me! ;) Chris 07:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm back...but I don't think my addition is all that great. Rugby, you mind cleaning it up?--Cronholm144 12:53, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ack, we're back to the white scroll! :( Is that to thicken the text? Also, what were you wanting to do with those wings? Chris 09:22, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

White??? I'm confused. All I did was spread the feathers, but I started from an earlier version. --Cronholm144 10:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry, it showed me the old version with the white scroll, when I saw your edit history, it looked like you tried to revert, so I did. Chris 21:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, it is saved in the history in any case. What would you like done?--Cronholm144 01:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * At this point, if you could make the text thicker so it will show up on the red background, as well as the parallel yellow lines on the scroll, maybe do your feather spreading, I would be happy and we could close this and get it out of your very patient and kind to-do list. :) Chris 02:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not gone, and I suppose that I'm it... I'll try to fix everything today.--Cronholm144 17:38, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If I messed up your fixes when I reverted away from the white scroll, I do apologize. Chris 20:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

No it's fine. I did everything but thicken the text, which I don't feel qualified to do.—Cronholm144 17:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen Akiramenai on for a while, who would be eminently qualified to do that. Chris 18:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've placed a request at Akiramenai's talk page. Chris 00:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that's a dead issue, so for now we can consider this closed, and thank you all for your help! Chris 21:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Red-White-Green Emblem


I need the script I can't make it out.--Cronholm144 03:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Akiramenai of the Graphic Lab here has on their user page that they are a speaker of Farsi, perhaps that will help? Maybe making the image perhaps double or triple size will allow the text to be put in easily. Image:Laos.jpg above, at 167 × 219 pixels, 100px, is a really good size to show details. Chris 04:43, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Size doesn't matter with svgs I can make them as large or as small as I want. What I need is a legible copy of the text.--Cronholm144 13:33, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes Chris, the persian text says: amade bash, which means "be ready/prepared".
 * I will try to make time to finish the vector version.
 * thumbs up to the teamwork here* Akiramenai 15:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Akiramenai can provide the Farsi script?; if not, I would be happy to put in a similar language request to every user at Category:User fa-N for their help with the text on the scroll. (there are many more speakers of Farsi on the 'pedia than there are Lao and Amharic) Thanks again, all! Chris 07:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

What about the red-white-green emblem? I have uploaded my version(I still have the lossless file so if you think I can improve it somehow please say so) Is this emblem free of copyright or is there a way to post it anyway? I am very bad at copyright rules and I think I may have uploaded my version of the emblem with the wrong copyright rules. But I really need to know what I should change about the image to comply with the rules and keep the quality good at the same time. Akiramenai 18:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC) Any suggestions?


 * I reuploaded based on yours and made some tweaks. I added lines to your banner and two shadows to created the illusion added a lanyard and softened the letters and added a triangle thing. I know I have gaping white wholes in my pic, I forgot to take them out.--Cronholm144 20:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It actually is starting to look nice, what do you mean "triangle thing"? I don't see it. Also, there seems to be a small bit of color in the lanyard itself, what does it represent? Thanks to all, again! Chris 08:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think he means the yellow object at the far bottom of the image.
 * I can't make out what it is.
 * Anyway, added some more shading. I didn't notice the sign was overlapping itself, thanks for the sharp eye Cronholm. Akiramenai 09:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also the last letter in the original image is slightly different from what you use in everyday Persian so I edited that in the svg version.Akiramenai 11:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

You folks really work well together! WikiProjects should all take lessons! Some thoughts: Thanks! Chris 20:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The scroll and all outer edges of the emblems should be symmetrical
 * As to the yellow object at the far bottom of the image, again we don't want to use colors we can't really verify. The emblem itself was only produced in red, green and black on white.
 * Now that the text has been modified, please center it left to right on the scroll
 * Also, now that I have blown this up, there is supposed to be fimbriation on the red and green edges, geometric Farsi text that reads like Image:Flag of Iran.svg
 * Akiramenai already has that in his, I just have trouble modifying his work, so I kept using mine--Cronholm144 22:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

@Akiramenai, Do you know how to use Bezier curves in Inkscape? You seem to use multiple nodes where it is not always advantageous to do so.--Cronholm144 22:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that my work should be used to compliment Akiramenai's. For example, I have smoothed out some of the curves on both the scroll and the large lettering using beziering and I have tried to add that @%$# knot but to no avail. I also adjusted the alignment of the center stroke (look closely) of the large letters, it is off kilter in Akiramenai's. If these changes can be incorporated into his then we will be very close.--Cronholm144 22:30, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * However you folks want to do this is fine with me. However, the edging on Image:Iran1980s.svg is cleaner and doesn't tuck up behind the scroll at the bottom, and the non-shadowed emblem shape is preferable. In addition, your "@%$# knot" ;) needs to be added to it, as well as to Rugby's version. Chris 22:45, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Using forbidden techniques, I have synthesized the images. All that is left is the knot..... sigh--Cronholm144 23:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The one you had was great, just black-and-white if you still have it. Can Rugby also use the scroll you have created, as it is the same scroll? Chris 05:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

@Cron, Unfortunately I find it easier to use macromedia flash than Inkscape. I only use Inkscape to convert metafiles from Flash to SVG. Please Please Please, if you think you can improve my images by smoothing etc. do so. If SVG is lossless it shouldn't be a big problem, otherwise I can send the metafiles in some way.Akiramenai 09:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC) Akiramenai By the way, the scout logo looks much better now at the top (much smoother). Thank you CRonholm. But the shading I added is gone now ??? :( Akiramenai 09:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry bout that, but Chris said he didn't want it (I realize that it probably took awhile) @Chris and Rugby sure thats fine with me...but I didn't draw it... Akiramenai did.--Cronholm144 12:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh ok, It's all good then. All that is left is...."The knot". I'd leave it as it is though. Akiramenai 14:01, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is great! The only other thing I might suggest is that the fimbriation on the red and green edges, geometric Farsi text that reads like Image:Flag of Iran.svg, should be more pronounced. Chris 21:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You guys will hate me-the knot should be centered beneath the bottom point of the fleur-de-lis. Chris 02:21, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll get on it.--Cronholm144 21:40, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Uhh... I changed the image a while back... comments?--Cronholm144 07:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, duh, totally escaped me, thank you! I saw it and meant to respond. The mind is a terrible thing to waste... That is perfect, I am totally happy with it, thank you. Can you follow where I am trying to go with Rugby's red emblem? I think that's the toughest one of the batch, and my explanations seem to make things worse. Thanks again. Chris 07:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I was going to leave that one to Rugby... but I will take a look at it.--Cronholm144 07:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to make sure I was understandable, was seeking second-party verification. At work of late it seems I confuse people. Chris 09:06, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

copyright?
Just a slight warning here - the logos are copyright (by the templates on the original images) so creating SVGs with too high a level of detail could be seen to go beyond fair use (see Logos). It might be best to create SVGs and then render those as PNGs at 300x400 resolution, which is probably low enough. Since SVGs are vector, not raster, they potentially have any resolution (within reason) so PNGs would be better, although SVGs with a relatively low level of detail should also be OK. Time3000 08:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Then I should suggest to the Scouting Wikiproject to make a modification to the Scoutlogo template, for defunct Scouting insignia-these (with exceptions of a later upload) are between 20 and 45 years out of use, so they may actually not have copyright holders any longer. Chris 08:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Iranian copyright seems to expire after 30 years when it's held by an organisation (|http://www.parstimes.com/law/copyright_law.html), so you're probably OK there. If it's expired, it might be better to use Template:PD-Iran as the copyright tag. Time3000 14:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * We're about two years shy on the red one for that tag to be applicable; thank you for the great research! Chris 17:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg
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BetacommandBot 18:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

This section needs translation into English.

احيای مجدد سازمان پيش آهنگی در سال 1382 توسط پور مهر محسن زنجانی '''برای دريافت اطلاعات بيشتر به سايتهای زيرمراجعه فرمائيد