Talk:Iranian religions

Move
Can we please move this back to Persian religions? Warrior4321 #008080 About MetalkContribs 23:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No. This article is not limited to "Persian religions" (whatever that is). -- Fullstop (talk) 00:05, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * All of these religions happen before the nation of Iran was actually called Iran. It was called before that, all of these religions take place in Persia. The page should be called Persian religion. Warrior4321talkContribs 00:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Even if your ideas were correct, the age of names is not relevant here (or anywhere else). What this article is about is stated in the first sentence of the article. You may wish to follow the links if you don't understand the terms mentioned therein. -- Fullstop (talk) 01:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * They did not originate in Greater Iran? They originated in Persia. Warrior4321talk 01:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid you will need to come up with lots of reliable sources to support your assertion. Wikipedia has a policy that exceptional claims require exceptional sources. This is necessary to preserve the integrity of the encyclopedia. Sorry. -- Fullstop (talk) 02:21, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * In Persian Empire it states that the name Persia was used until 1935. All of these religions are before 1935 and were therefore made in the Persian Empire. Therefore, they are Persian religions. Warrior4321talk 03:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * See my previous remark (02:21) about reliable sources . See also Wikipedia's policy on the publication of your thoughts. See also (01:16) "Even if your ideas were correct, the age of names is not relevant here (or anywhere else)." Thanks. -- Fullstop (talk) 08:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Good sir, I am trying to tell you that these religions were founded in the Persian Empire not in Iran. How can they be Iranian then? Warrior4321talk 16:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * "Empire" == government. While culture (religion, language, etc) == people.
 * The two are not synonymous. -- Fullstop (talk) 21:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Better/More Descriptive and Engaging Lead
Can we include this in the lead?

The word "Aryan" designates Indian and Iranian culture and "most justly" the latter where the term still lives on and is interchangeable with the linguistic, national, and religious identifier Iranian. The Aryans are recalled as the Airya in the ancient Iranian scriptures known as the Avesta, the oldest portions of which were composed by the ancient Aryan “poet-praiser” historians identify as ‘’Zarathushtra’’ (Gk. Zoroaster Ger. Zarathustra), and who were closely tied to speakers and clans or nations of Indo-Europe’s ancestral past including the Scythians, Sarmatians, and Cimmerians also included within the category of “Aryan.”   Similarly the Aryans are recalled as the Arya in the ancient Indic scriptures known as the Vedas. The Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit languages of these respective Aryan speakers are almost identical and henceforth must trace back to a period shortly after the linguistic divergence of their hypothetical common ancestor known as Proto-Indo-Iranian. Scholars have dated these languages to a period ranging from 6000 BCE to no later than 1000 BCE. The homeland of the Aryans is recalled in the Avesta as Airyana Vaejah and roughly corresponds to the modern day territories of Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Georgia, Iran, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, and Pakistan. Alternatively there is no record of an Aryan homeland in the Vedas although the place-name Arya-Varta which identifies the "abode of the Aryans" does appear in post-Vedic texts such as the Manusmirti, and indicates "the tract between the Himalaya and the Vindhya ranges, from the Eastern Sea to the Western Sea." The Aryan religion of the Avesta, also known as the "Magical or Ethical Religion," demonstrates elements of monotheism sometimes referred to as "monotheistic dualism" which contributed to the core of the Abrahamic belief system. Similarly there are traces of monotheism in the Vedas, but evidence of polytheism appears already in the most ancient of the Vedic compositions, the Rig Veda. The religion of the Vedic Aryans, also known as ancient Hinduism, in its refined form, developed into Buddhist philosophy. In addition to having made contributions to the Abrahamic faiths, the religion of the Avestic Aryans also made significant contributions to several other movements throughout the course of history including Greek philosophy the Mithraic Mysteries of the pre-Christian Roman Empire both Shiaism and Sufism, the Renaissance  Europe's Volk movement, and Freemasonry (eg. the Sarastro Lodge named after Zarathushtra himself). In specific the Aryan religion of the Avestan people has also had a significant influence on a handful of individuals in modern day times including Friedrich Nietzsche (eg. Thus Spoke Zarathustra), Richard Strauss (eg. Also Spoke Zarathustra), Mozart (eg. The Magic Flute), Thomas Edison (inventor of the Mazda Bulb) , President Truman (quoted for his reference to the Persian Emperor of Aryan lineage: “I am Cyrus”) , Stanley Kubrick (having incorporated Strauss’s Also Spoke Zarathustra into the beginning score of his 2001: A Space Odyssey). In their orthodox forms the religion of the Avestic and Vedic Aryans live on, respectively, with the Zartushtis or Parsis of Irano-Afghanistan and India, and the Hindus of South Asia, many of whom have also taken up residence in Europe and the United States.

Yazdânism and Yarsanism
Firstlly, Yazdânism is a pseudohistoric religion. (That´s also on the main article about Yazdânism) Secondly, according this sources (which are used in the article „Tawûsî Melek“ in the part about Yarsanism) is yarsanism dating back to pre-Islam, Of course not in the form it is now, so it did not yet include Sultan Sahak or the Prophet Muhammad, because they were not yet born, but it was still Yarsanism just as Judaism in Jeremiah's time was Judaism, even if it did not yet include e.g. Ezekiel, because he was not yet born. In any case, the 16th century did not see the establishment of a religion, but rather a reformation of religion.

Thirdly, I don't know how Iranian historians date historical periods, but so far I have always come across that the Middle Ages ended in the late 15th century and the 16th is already the modern era, so if we want to stick with the claim that Yarsanism arose in the 16th century, then we should move it from the medieval period to the modern era. --Dr. Ivan Kučera (talk) 15:18, 30 March 2023 (UTC)