Talk:Iranian sex tape scandal

Names of participants
If and when the names of the participants become known to the media at large, this article should probably be moved. Ford MF 00:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually no; as things have developed, I now think it's better the incident gets its own article, while the participants receive bio stubs. Ford MF 16:32, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This would make sense if you're operating under the assumption that this is the only sex tape scandal that Iran will ever produce; a foolish idea, if you ask me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.60.208.212 (talk) 18:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC).
 * That's a good point; the article title is somewhat generic. But it can always be moved to something like 2006 Iranian sex tape scandal if the need arises.  Ford MF (talk) 14:20, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

POV issues
The starting paragraph is very much POV. The regime of Iran was "sympathetic" to the actress compared to similar cases. Apparently the Judiciary and the actress (as well as the public) are going to put the whole responsibility on the shoulder of the ex-boy friend of the actress. It seems that the ex-boy friend was to take revenge ... . Please do not edit the article with a POV tone even if you hate the Islamic regime of Iran. Some body made a porno movie about some body else and distributed it without permission in order to take revenge. This is illegal in any country. Instead of jumping into conclusion, we need to be patient to see what will come up in future. Then the article will be rewritten in an appropriate tone. Sangak 18:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think the article or lead-in indicates any particular sympathy or lack thereof towards the subjects of the investigation, or jumps to conclusions. And there is a "current events" tag.  The article states only that she is under investigation, and lists the criminal penalties she would be liable to should she be convicted.  I'm certainly willing to believe the judiciary is going to put the entirety of responsibility on the shoulders of Mr. X; I would however be happier with a press source citing that.


 * The nonconsensual distribution of pornographic images is indeed illegal in every country. Sex outside marriage, however, is something that is not illegal in every country, and on those grounds alone is notable.  And the broad inequity of punishments both participants are liable for (3 years imprisonment and $12k fine vs. 99 lashes and indeterminate imprisonment), while certainly unflattering to Iran's judiciary, is not a POV claim, it's true.  It's also well cited in the reputable news sources in the footnotes.  Ford MF 21:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I see your points. But there is another issue here. There is practically no way for Iranian judiciary to prove that "sex out of marriage" happened two years ago. There is no witness (they need four witnesses according to the law) and the actress also claimed that the movie is fake. Anyways, using only western sources make an article POV naturally. I hope those who know Persian will help in writing the article, as there are numerous sources in Persian. I am generally not interested in such topics otherwise I would help. Sangak 21:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Extra-wiki flaming
Just thought I'd mention that user 84.208.201.99 sought out my livejournal and repeatedly flamed it based on my edits to this article (not to mention he/she keeps trying to blank it). I got a bunch of flames from 85.164.162.190 too, which I suspect is the same user at a different ISP. Not sure what to do about this decidedly uncivil behavior, but I figured I might as well make note of it anyway. Ford MF 21:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC) ==Linking to the video== I was initially hesitant about this when someone initially posted it, but have become convinced of its soundness as Wiki material after consulting WP:Pornography. I don't see why I shouldn't consider blanking of this content--as it continually has been, from several (or perhaps one) anonymous users--as vandalism. Ford MF 16:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Please read WP:BLP. There is no reason to have the link, when the subject of the video vehemently denies it being of her. It seems likely that the whole thing is fake. Have some respect for human dignity, please.--Jimbo Wales 16:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Jimbo, assume good faith please. It is wholly inappropriate for you to say someone has no respect for human dignity simply because they disagree with your boundaries and limitations. Please remain civil, as policy states. And whomever erased this as 'unsigned trolling' - reminding someone of policy is in no way, shape, or form, 'trolling'.   We're supposed to treat Jimbo as a regular editor, not as a figure that is beyond policy or reproach, and that would, I assume, include reminding him of the policies about assuming good faith of fellow contributors.  Also Jimbo, if you would prefer to be seen as a regular editor and not have sycophants bowing and scraping at your edits, it might be advisable to adopt a less obvious username, or simply to log out altogether.  If you want to see a new view of Wikipedia, contribute as an anon for a while.  You might learn a thing or two about the way people act.  65.60.208.212 22:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Er, okay then! I guess the Lama has spoken.  At this point I realize that argument is beyond futile, but this isn't Zahra's biography page, this is the article about a videotape and its controversy, and as such I don't think it violates human dignity too much to link to what the article is actually talking about.  Particularly if, as you say, it's a fake.  (Personally, I can't tell.)  This article here doesn't assert it is indeed her, but the fact that lots and lots of people do believe it is (or could) be Ebrahimi has had a very real effect on her life and career.


 * Also holy crap, did Jimbo Wales just comment on an article I created? Ford MF 21:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * PS - Ford MF loves Wikipedia. Ford MF 21:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The porn movie is fake: * http://zahra-amirebrahimi.persianblog.com/ (in Persian)

-- Dear Mr Fraud,or as you put it "fordmadoxfraud", You have demonstrated your lack of knowledge in IT and computers as well as people. You are advised to write about articles/people you have some knowledge.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.133.121.12 (talk) 18 December 2006

Someone please verify this
I'm not a muslim, I merely have some basic understanding of islam, but I thought that in islamic shari'a law, in order to have a conviction for adultery or fornication, you needed to have 4 witnesses present in person at the scene at the time it's happening. I'll add this to the article once it's been verified. --Witchinghour 18:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think 100,000 DVD sales and 1,000,000 estimated downloads adequately satisfies that requirement either way. Ford MF 20:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My technical shari'a (not common law) question is about having the witnesses at the time, not 2 years later. also does iran law or shari'a law have a statute of limitations. --Witchinghour 20:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This Persian blog claims that the fact that the act was videotaped obviates the need for four witnesses, but I don't know how accurate that is. I can't find any refs in reputable western news sources one way or the other.  Ford MF 21:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Stoning
I removed all the stuff about stoning since it's becoming (to me at least) more and more clear that the punishment is not applicable here. When I first started the article and no one in the west knew who the girl was, there was fairly frequent speculation about stoning as a penalty for adulterers, but now that it's been reasonably established that no adultery took place, I don't think it belongs in the article any more. I don't want it to become a pointless battleground.

Although I do want to point to Monfared, who originally posted that stoning had been "banned" in Iran, that that was only partially true, and slightly disingenuous. Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi instituted a moratorium on stoning, which is altogether less binding and permanent than "banning" would imply. Firstly, the penalty remains on the books, and the moratorium could be overturned at any time. Secondly, in May of this year two women were rumored to have been stoned to death in Iran, so the moratorium appears like it might be little more than lip service to foreign human rights advocates. Amnesty International says "might" and "alleged" a lot, but it's got a fairly detailed account of the alleged event. Ford MF 20:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Put one ref back in. Looks like she was never legally liable to be stoned, but there was at least one politician calling for it. Ford MF (talk) 15:35, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

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