Talk:Ireland cricket team/Archive 1

Lara
Should this article not have some mention of Ireland's famous recent victory over Brian Lara's West Indies at Belfast?

List A/First-class records
I updated the ODI record in the info box yesterday. But the List A and the First class records have also changed since September. Does anyone know where to get the current List A/1st class records? 07:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Cricket Archive is best for this. Use their scorecard oracle function. When doing the List A search, make sure you use the exact match check box to avoid picking up the three List A matches played by Northern Ireland. Andrew nixon 08:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. They are now up to date. I made just an incremental update (i.e. I added the matches played since last September) wild8oar 12:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Ladies' cricket
Shouldn't there be something about the ladies' team in this article? They competed in the World Cup last year. --Ryano 10:45, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * For the women's team, it should be created at Irish women's cricket team following the current convention. Please see Category:National women's cricket teams GizzaChat  &#169; 11:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Hopefully somebody will do just that - I don't know enough about the subject to contribute much. --Ryano 11:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

1998 Commonwealth Games
"A Northern Ireland team, a 'de facto' 'full' Irish team under a different name, did play three matches at the 1998 Commonwealth Games in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia." I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Although composed of "full" Irish internationals, the squad was restricted to players born in Northern Ireland. DublinDilettante 22:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right; I've just checked CricketArchive and every man who played was born in NI, so I've edited that para. I think it might have been me who was (at least in part) responsible for the earlier version of the para, so apologies. Loganberry (Talk) 02:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The Flag
Perhaps an explanation of the singificance of the team flag is in order. Initial googling brings up nothing, but it just seems so symbolic of...something. Any explanation?

Three separate or joined Shamrocks?
Recently, another unregistered user going by the name of Dr. Durthwithogham has taken to removing the purported flag of the Irish cricket team, stating that the image is incorrect in having 3 joined shamrocks and that the correct image is of three separate shamrocks. However, if the image was incorrect then instead of leaving a space and coding text, Dr. Durthwithogham should at least leave a place-holder flag and then leave a message on the flag's discussion page and on the discussion page of the author of the image. In that way, if the flag is indeed incorrect, then the author will actually be notified and can fix it instead of finding out possibly weeks or months later that his or her image has been removed by a user for being supposedly incorrect. As to whether, logo on the flag is incorrect, I doubt that for the simple reason that two logos are used in Irish cricket (if anyone was paying attention in the Ireland-Zimbabwe match recently). On the helmets can be seen the 3 joined shamrocks that are found in the flag, while on the upper left breast of the team shirt can be seen the 3 separated shamrocks (with the words "Irish Cricket Union" written underneath) that Dr. Durtwithogham is referring to. In such a case it could well be that: Seeing as how you have a user name, Dr. Durtwithogham why not just fix the flag yourself instead of constantly removing it and leaving the page looking poorly? If anyone wants external links to show that both images are used then for the 3 joined shamrocks look at, & ; for the 3 separate shamrocks see  &  and for both the joined and separate shamorcks look at  (picture 4 has the joined shamrocks on the helmet clearly, while picture 11 has the separate shamrocks on the shirts clearly) & 72.27.85.98 03:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * one logo is older (and thus not incorrect)
 * or both logos are currently used (and thus neither is incorrect as might well be the case)
 * or one logo is for the Irish cricket union while the other is used for the flag (in which case the one with the words might be solely for the cricket union, while the simpler image is for insignia and flags)
 * or one logo is used only for the helmets, while the other is used for the shirts (as to which would then be used for the flags, I don't know).

Could someone knowlegable force the issue on this flag. please. Theres holes all over wikipedia!!86.42.186.220 (talk) 15:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Separate shamrocks are only used on ODI uniforms, the joined shamrock are still used on the test unis and as the symbol of Cricket Ireland. As for the flag, a non copyrighted svg has been created. Saebhiar Adishatz 23:56, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I have contacted Cricket Ireland directly. They have confirmed expressly they have no objection whatsoever to use of the flag on Wikipedia or anywhere else. They protect the copyright in the logo. So we can use the flag, now, right? I can forward the email I received from them if necessary. Mpjmcevoy (talk) 22:55, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Moved
I moved this back across from Ireland cricket team to Irish cricket team. It was at Irish cricket team before, but someone moved it. I done this so that it was the same as all the other national cricket teams, such as Bangladeshi cricket team, Sri Lankan cricket team and so on. The template at the bottom was bolding Ireland when we were on that page because it linked to Irish cricket team. If a consensus is reached to move all of the national teams to their country name, rather than their country adjective, then we'll do it then. Cream147 Shout at me for doing wrong 09:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * All others are "[Country] national cricket team". Is Ireland an exception because of its border? Or should it also be brought into line with the norm?--Jeff79 (talk) 17:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ireland is an exception because the team doesn't represent a single country/nation. The team represents both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. There's a few more exceptions for similar reasons, most notably West Indies cricket team (represents several countries and territories) and England cricket team (represents England and Wales). Andrew nixon (talk) 18:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ireland rugby union team redirects to Ireland national rugby union team, even though the Irish rugby team also represents the whole island of Ireland, rather than a single country/nation. That redirect has been present since 2006 with no controversy over that time. I don't see why the cricket team should be different. The naming of this article is at odds with the pages of all the other non-test playing nations. Little Professor (talk) 22:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not true I'm afraid, all international cricket teams follow the same naming convention, eg: England cricket team (no "national" as it includes Wales) and West Indies cricket team. If anything, I'd suggest that the rugby article needs moving for being inaccurate, but that's something for another day. Nev1 (talk) 22:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said, the naming is at odds with the article for all the other non-test playing nations. England and the Windies are test playing countries. Also, to suggest the rugby article needs moving, whether now or on another day, would be challenging the existing established consensus for that naming convention too Little Professor (talk) 12:34, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're still wrong as the associate and affiliate teams follow the same naming convention as the Test playing teams. There would be no point in having two rules for naming international cricket teams, it's just that there aren't many teams with similarly peculiar situations as England, Ireland, and the West Indies. Nev1 (talk) 22:03, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * PS. Yes, suggesting moving the rugby article would be challenging previous consensus, but consensus can change. Nev1 (talk) 22:05, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Records
Since I have been unable to find a reference for all time run scorers and wicket takers for Ireland I have removed the list. It's here in case someone else can find a reliable source: All-time Run List:

All-time Wicket List: I've replaced it with a verifiable list of people with most first-class runs and wickets. Nev1 (talk) 23:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Here and here should do the job. Andrew nixon (talk) 23:23, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, those were the stats I worked from. Nev1 (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Change the file type of the flag image
Will somebody change the file type of the flag image from PNG to SVG, please. That might be the reason for the flag being not present along with the team name in fixtures.(eg: 2009_ICC_World_Twenty20)--Anoopkn (talk) 16:09, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

New Flag
Ok I've created a svg version of the flag. It's my own work based on the flag on Cricket Ireland's website. The flag is not copyrighted and can be used here. Saebhiar Adishatz 23:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there any news on the flag issue? I noted the "badge" that is now used here. But what about a flag that can be used in flagicon, e.g. for the scores and tables? What exactly is the problem with the flag? Why can the West Indies flag be used on Wikipedia, but not the Irland cricket flag? I don't want to critisize anyone, I just don't understand what the issues are. The situation with the many grey question-mark flags everywhere is not very satisfactory. Wild8oar (talk) 13:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The Cricket Ireland flag is not copyrighted, but try telling that to the people who keep deleting the image. Andrew nixon (talk) 13:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I have contacted Cricket Ireland directly. They have confirmed expressly they have no objection whatsoever to use of the flag on Wikipedia or anywhere else. They protect the copyright in the logo. So we can use the flag, now, right? I can forward the email I received from them if necessary. Mpjmcevoy (talk)

Ireland Cricket Team Comprising of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Hi all, As far as I know, the Irish Cricket Team Comprises on the Irish only, as players from Northern Ireland can play directly for the English Team; thus is the same for Wales. The Irish Cricket Team is now only selected from players born in Ireland, otherwise they must sit out a 5 year qualification period, similar to the 7 year period that the ECC employ. Is this correct or am I wrong? Joshthomson (talk) 05:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You are wrong. See Kyle McCallan and Boyd Rankin. Andrew nixon (talk) 06:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Duly noted. Apologies for wasted time. Clearly I had it wrong Joshthomson (talk) 23:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Well he's half right, players born in northern Ireland, part of the island of Ireland, are qualified to play. Bigot--89.242.108.131 (talk) 11:24, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Ireland flag
The Ireland cricket flag appears to be the green shamrock, on a blue background as seen [here]. This image is certainly that used by the ICC when they show the flag icons representing their associate members and indeed in the pages of Cricket Ireland. I note that this is not allowed to be shown on articles to represent the Ireland cricket team in general on the grounds of potential copyright violation. I have two main points:
 * 1) For the specific article on the Ireland cricket team I am suprised it is not already shown, because it would fall under "fair use" to use it here. There is no question about that based on a plethora of similar examples.
 * 2) With regard to the general use of the flag as an icon etc, fair usage would not be permitted for an image under copyright. However, there is surely a strong case to be made for the fact that the flag does not breach the Threshold of originality. The blue background can cretainly not be under copyright. As for the image of the three shamrocks. First, shamrocks per se are certainly not "original work" in terms of representing Ireland. The use of three shamrocks as an image is also something that was used by the Ireland rugby union side since at least the early 1930s, and before that it was a four shamrock motif. The design of the shamrock badge is in no way intricate. Has the case for this not being copyright using the argument of "threshold of originality" been made already?Kwib (talk) 00:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I have contacted Cricket Ireland directly. They have confirmed expressly they have no objection whatsoever to use of the flag on Wikipedia or anywhere else. They protect the copyright in the logo. So we can use the flag, now, right? I can forward the email I received from them if necessary. Mpjmcevoy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC).

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